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Stealing, Killing, and 'Griefing' - FTB

Discussion in 'FTB General Discussion' started by Mojinax, March 24, 2014.

  1. Mojinax

    Mojinax

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    So I'd like to discuss the decision on whether stealing, killing and 'griefing' should be allowed on the FTB server. In the past two days, I've encountered about 15 or so people showing up at my doorstep. I've welcomed all of them in, given them food, and some I have offered a spot in my house, but some have showed up with swords and showed signs of hostility, and in my opinion, something seemed a little bloodthirsty about a few of them. So in the case that this happens - let's discuss the possibilities that would come with such a scenario.

    With PvP enabled - It's a fight to the death, winner takes all. In the case he dies, I would take his stuff and stash it. In the case that I would die at my base, he would then attempt to take from my base. When I spoke to Versh about this topic, he said he would not want someone killing him and therefore his progress - but if you adapt and prepare for this situation, only you will die, and not your progress and hard work. On the main server where we have no PvP threat and virtually no PvE threat, we just leave our chests and belongings wherever we please because we know that if they're stolen or griefed that they will be replaced. But if we instead were fearful of other players, we will take the precautions to keep our hard-earned belongings safe. This adds a whole new aspect to the game which we have not seen before on the server - actual survival.

    Without PvP - You'll build your "base" and fend off from monsters (with fences and torches, minimally), protected the same way your are on main. It's a care-free approach which I would call a combination between the main server's feeling and creative world's curiosity and endless possibilities. I'm not opposed to this, as there's a lot to do, but it will obviously reach an end at one point, whereas you can no longer progress.

    I'm in favor of PvP being enabled, and thus stealing and functional griefing (griefing to make ends meet, not for the sake of destroying someone's hard work) which you probably could already figure out. I feel allowing these would therefore make the server a dynamic playing zone, as opposed to the stagnant state it would reach eventually if the players were allowed to avoid hardship with a few torches to keep the monsters away.

    Either way, I'll continue to play FTB and enjoy it - just I see one way that would keep me playing for longer.
     
  2. Stephfork

    Stephfork

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    I'll drop my two cents here, since I saw a fair amount of PvP action with the death messages in chat throughout my FTB gameplay today, and I heard about some stealing/griefing.

    Personally, I do not care much for PvP. I'm not one to play on the PvP server, I'm too much of a collector, builder and I am not the type to enjoy smacking my sword at people all the time or raiding factions. However, I do not mind PvP on the FTB world, but I could see it taking away from the experience of learning almost a whole new game. After playing FTB for the first time today, several hours later I am still playing and I still have a lot to learn. I couldn't imagine the frustration I would have if I found myself in situations where I would constantly be killed by maybe someone more experienced with FTB who would take advantage of the people who are still learning. I believe if someone is intentionally seeking a PvP experience, then perhaps the PvP world is more suitable, not one like FTB which emphasizes creating, surviving and in my opinion from what i've experienced today, is more centred around surviving mobs(which in some cases are enough of a challenge as is). With this said, I do think some chest protection or rules against theft/griefing would be stellar.

    With this in mind, I believe those who want to avoid the PvP aspect on this world right now(and if it does not change), they just need to go further out in the world, say at least 2-3k blocks. I'm almost certain that those who wish to PvP will stay within a thousand blocks from the spawn or so, seeking out people to engage in a fight with because the further out you go in the world, it's just logic that you will have a lesser chance of finding players. I think if players like myself, who wish to learn, build and grow our base on this FTB world, should get as far away as spawn as we feel necessary to have a secure, distant base and more enjoyable experience for ourselves. Those who just come on FTB to grief and steal, well, I'm sure you'll end up regretting it, eventually.

    I don't care if there is change or not, since I will adjust my location when needed to keep myself and my base safe, this is just part of playing survival. The best thing players can do is work with what we have, be strategic when we need to, and do what we wish to enjoy ourselves.
     
    Last edited: March 24, 2014
  3. Dragonslayer314

    Dragonslayer314

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    As Typo said on my thread, the new tools make PvP almost "too" easy. Rapiers pierce armor, so any feelings of security you gained with that diamond armor should not exist. I don't think that it adds to the game. You can get to a point where your weapon does at least 5 hearts armor piercing.
     
  4. Hallideadly

    Hallideadly

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    Greifing/PvP already has 2 worlds to play in with hub and pvp. Griefing has always tried to get into main world as well, but thankfully the entire Deity community/Staff keeps things in check.:)

    Although non-griefing in FTB would be nice it simply will happen. Even though these are 30+ hour players, some still feel the need, then fill the need.

    I also would like FTB to be a friendly place like main, minus the towns, where everyone goes there own way, makes an attempt to thrive in a new, (Hungry) world. Friends meet up and thrive together, and build fantastic machines.

    Signs do not work - rather it entices stealers to steal. I do not understand the concept of taking what is not mine. I got mine by working for it. They get there's by taking what I worked for, and there is no repercussion worth the effort. But in the end - it is just a video game, right ?
     
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  5. bcrass

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    I believe the only thing that should be stolen is food, only when you are near hunger though. since once you reach 0 on the hunger bar, you die. other than that, maybe the occasional PvP challenge, but no other type of briefing should happen what so ever.
     
  6. Mojinax

    Mojinax

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    Person #1: I want JellyBeans

    Person #2: What kind? We have barf and eggplant flavor.

    Person #1: Nevermind...

    We have them, yet NO ONE enjoys hub, and not very many enjoy PvP.

    Although I think what bcrass is suggesting is almost impossible to monitor, he does have one thing that I like. IF you are going to steal/grief/kill someone, I believe it should be done in good taste. When it comes to stealing, take what you need and want, not everything. The vikings didn't take the gold chains and the oak table the chain was sitting on, and we're meant to be much more civil than they were. IF you have to grief to get into somewhere, just replace what you destroyed. The only exception to this would be if you're taking the material itself, which would have to at the very least be an uncommon material... And as I said in game, there's nothing I hate more than someone who runs around killing people just to kill people. Combat should be a byproduct of defense or tactical assault on a location, not a spur-of-the-moment open-field attack... There is a massive gray area in between PvP and no PvP, and many of us are choosing to ignore it. Set some rules as to what is acceptable PvP/stealing/griefing and enforce them. It takes effort, but I think a few kicks/temp bans will get the message through some people's heads.
     
    Last edited: March 25, 2014
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  7. squeezal

    squeezal

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    actually, I'm part of a pretty good community on hub, where a lot of people make some amazing house, like Rlindsey. It's nice to be in a space with no restrictions or goals, and we all take care of each other as part of this semi-secret community. But stuff lost in hub is pretty easy to replace. It took me two days to learn how to make a smelter in ftb. While the challenge from the environemrnt is fun, I don't care to add paranoia about other players into the mix.
     
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  8. dehaasser

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    Maybe but people that do just raid for what they want just ruins the game.
    just gives people the attitude of why bother...with these people that just go around taking what they want.
    And its not low class players either its known members that are doing it, that you would think would have respect.
    But then again allot of known players are still young children that just do what they want because they want attitude.
    just ruins the fun.

    Want to raid and grief and kill why not play in the PVP server.
     
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  9. Dragonslayer314

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    I already posted this on my thread, but I'm going to post this here anyways.
    As to why this should NOT be a PvP/Stealing server, it's pretty simple.
    It's a PvE (definitely not PvP) modpack. Let it be PvE. Constantly having to worry about the PvP aspect of the server takes away from the original PvE. Also, as already stated, we a have PvP server. You want to know what we don't have? A true PvE server. That's what we need, and what this can be. Allow it to be that, please.
     
  10. EmotionOfRage

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    Hello!
    I'm an active FTB player, and would like to also say what I think about PvP & Griefing on the FTB server.

    I myself have played on tons of Feed-the-Beast servers with different Modpacks, though not all have PvP on it.
    Though, as much people don't like PvP, i find it's some-what needed in this certain modpack, why? Because due to the fact it's made for pure survival.

    Alright, time to start with PvP, I believe PvP in the FTB server is necessary because it gives people a challenge, what's the point of making all this cool stuff from the modpack if you can only use it on mobs?
    What's the point in hiding in a hole fighting mobs for mobs for months? I would say it would get boring after a while.
    Though if people are abusing PvP, an example is spawn killing a player whenever they respawn, that would be abusing it.

    And, for those who don't like PvP and griefing, simply make a small base, mine, get the basics.
    Then once you've done that, you can just make yourself a MystCraft world and live peacefully with your own private world.
    Another solution for griefing, is to look into Thaumcraft and use that and I believe there is a wand add-on that allows you to protect blocks so that only you can edit it.

    Here's my idea on griefing, not a fan of it.
    I myself would suggest the server to be non-griefing, but still have PvP. That way players won't lose all their items if they get killed by a mob, or another player.
    Possibly get logblock on the FTB server if the server doesn't allow griefing.

    I live with Typodestoyer and Dragonslayer314, who were recently attacked by another user.
    I've been living by myself on FTB, where nobody has attacked me since I've gone out 3000 blocks from spawn.
    And now since they came to join me, I built a Mystcraft world where nobody would disturb us, there, problem solved from PvP and griefing.

    Easy ways to avoid Griefing:
    • Mystcraft descriptive worlds.
    • Thaumcraft wand add-ons.
    • Going out 5000 blocks from spawn.
    What to do when getting attacked:
    • Make OP weapons and armour.
    • Create safari net launcher and capture some mobs to attack with.
    • Create some traps and various escape routes from your base.
    So, my short and total response to this is, even though players don't like PvP and griefing, there is numerous ways around that using the various mods in the Modpack, so I suggest to try and use those ways.
     
    Last edited: March 26, 2014
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  11. SaintThunder

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    Aside from the fact that enforcing "no excessive PvP/griefing" is difficult enough, I will state my opinion as a player.

    First off, griefing and stealing should be an absolute no. It takes long enough to get materials, and having things stolen from you only makes the game harder and more frustrating. This, more than anything, will cause players to leave ftb or the server in general. Why would you play on this fun, new minecraft experience for this server if some is just going to come along and take it by force or while you are away. That isn't the point of Magic Farm. The point is to survive the challenges the game already gives you, and even with the most powerful weapons and armor, the game alone is still challenging, you just tend to feel safer. This isn't vanilla minecraft, and most people I have seen on ftb so far are much more interested in exploring the game rather than killing and taking. However, the only way to enforce no griefing would be to have some form of land claiming/protection, and no, mystcraft worlds won't cut it.

    Note: my knowledge of mystcraft isn't complete, so if there is a flaw in any of my arguments, please point them out.
    The reason fleeing to a mystcraft world won't be good enough is because anyone can follow you back there, and if you have custom crafted your world a certain way where you won't get certain materials, it is more than likely that someone will be more capable of trapping you there. And while having your own little world in a book is really nice and awesome, not everyone is going to be content with simply being exiled because they don't want another player coming through and destroying everything they put hours into collecting and making.

    I'm quite certain that because of the addition of new blocks and everything, people are, at some point, going to want to build something awesome. And since Magic Farm 2 was specifically chosen for its focus on PvE, I think people should feel safe enough to build, and not have to worry about it being griefed by another. Once again, I think this is only achievable to players if we are able to locate a plot protection/land claiming plugin that works with ftb.

    Now, I don't think PvP should be on for the entire world. I think people would be very sad if it went away entirely, so I would like to propose something that might not happen for a while, and will probably only happen if/once we get protection areas. There are several options, I will simply list all of them, and players can choose the ones they like.

    Option #1: There is some sort of arena area where players can each get control of a certain amount on land to build an arena for others to fight in. Once an arena is built, the original constructor(s) will have continued access to add on to their builds, but should not be allowed to just take it down. If other people are using it and enjoying it, it should be considered as part of the map. I do believe players should be allowed to work on more than one arena, and I also think players should have to provide their own materials. This would be beneficial to feed the beast, because it gives great opportunities for players to work together, lets players actively contribute to the server, and allows players to build creatively.

    Option #2: PvP can be turned off in plot protected/claimed areas. The purpose of this is to allow those who want to live passively and peacefully the opportunity to do so. While they probably won't be safe all the time, like when they are mining, they still have the option to live long enough to get within their own borders. This will allow that group of people to continue enjoying playing on the server, even if/when another player kills them.

    I currently don't have any other ideas at this moment, but if someone else comes up with another alternative, that will certainly help come to an easy and fair resolution for everyone. I will probably add other suggestions into my post here (crediting the author, their post will also be left in the thread) for the sake of an easy "this is what we've come up with so far."
     
  12. Trekar_Sil

    Trekar_Sil

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    I support this ^
     
  13. Mojinax

    Mojinax

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    It's not simple. This is not specified as a PvE Modpack - nowhere does it say it is - and nowhere does it say it is not. Worrying about the PvP aspect while also trying to do PvE is called survival. And yes, we all know about the PvP server, and we all know it doesn't rack in a quarter of the people that currently play FTB. We have a true PvE server - it's called main. Building a town doesn't take away from the PvE aspect, and therefore it's a true PvE server. Might I remind you that we don't have a complicated PvP server, and the FTB server could be just that.

    I only write it like this to show you that all your 'facts' are completely opinionated and based on rage because you were killed with a rapier once or twice, mind you, while carrying a rapier of your own... Really?

    At that, I'm done. I'd appreciate a true survival server as opposed to a half-threated survival server. Maybe the reason is because I lack in tact or maybe it's because I enjoy a challenge, but I've stated my reasoning and have nothing more to say.
     
  14. Typodestoyer

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    First of all, lies. You claim that his 'facts' are COMPLETELY opinionated because he was killed with a rapier. That is, in fact, not true. Both he and I agreed that rapiers are overpowered even before he got killed by one. I'm sorry, that is not why he feels that way, it simply proves his point. Rapiers are "too good" because they attack as fast as you can click and because they pierce armor. With an optimal rapier, if you surprise someone, they're dead and they can't do anything. If you don't surprise someone, but you can click uber-fast, they're still dead.
    Also, as for main being PvE, barely if at all. Building a town doesn't make it not PvE- having diamond armor and tools easily available, however, lowers the effectiveness of claims of "PvE", as does the fact that main has so many people on it (few mobs).
    You say that the "PvP server doesn't get 1/4 of the ftbers, but you fail to recognize the early game hype. When PvP reset, it had at least 20 people on quite often. Even now on weekends, it can get 13-20 people.
    I fear for a PvP raiding-based FTB, because I expect the number of players to drop significantly for a few reasons, the main one being, if you are going to go out thousands of blocks to make a little base and be solo for safety, why not just play singleplayer? It would have less lag issues and no issues about getting on because there are too many people. I fear that the PvP aspect of FTB will cause people to ragequit and that it will mostly attract the same people who play on the PvP server, and split the playerbase to the pain of both. I, for myself, would love an FTB world that didn't have PVP so that I could use the mods without worrying about other people who have optimized. At least on the PvP world there are some protections with factions.
     
  15. scoutdog75

    scoutdog75

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    I hear what everyone is saying to a certain extent but there are two issues to both sides. If you have 100% PVE then its similar to the main world where people just build and build. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that but it takes away from the aspect of Magic Farm 2 and FTB as a whole. Referring back to Moji's point, we don't want the server to become a bland PVE server, at least in my opinion, because you can always get better than the environment. But when you have competition and other players to work against it makes it just that much better.

    As Typo and Dragon both said, this server cannot turn into a 100% pvp server. Let alone the complaints about rapiers and such, there are plenty of ways to beat that. In my opinion, I think there should be some sort of faction but yet not faction aspect to it. To prevent greifing / stealing, there could be essentially groups of players who can join a party and share a group chat, land, etc, similar to a faction. Essentially it would almost be like Pvp towny in a sort of way. There just needs to be some balance between pvp and pve because I don't believe either suit the purposes for this server.
     
  16. jadman777

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    I have had my place in wild grieved a few times, emptying my chests and destroying work I have done. It is not nice, and makes no sense. My more precious stuff was hidden well, so the people only got a few hundred blocks of glass and clay and some other stuff i have spend hours mining, and basically trashed my house. Since then I have moved to a town and I hope this will solve this. We are all on this server for different reasons. I am not here to grief or to be griefed, but to mine and build. Lets respect each other. Fight when we want, and have stuff at stake when we do, and leave people alone that don't want to play that part of the game.
    My 2 cents worth.
     
  17. Driver_X

    Driver_X

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    This thread is about the new Feed The Beast server, which has pvp and griefing 'enabled' and that is what is up to discussion here. If you get griefed on Main/Towny server, write a ticket and moderators will check it, with possibility of full block/item rollbacks and ban of the offender.
     
  18. jadman777

    jadman777

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    hehe. Oh. OK. makes more sense now. cheers
     
  19. lukecraft01

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    umm i enjoy hub
     
  20. gonemadd

    gonemadd

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    Only thing that I've done that could be close to griefing is when I found a tombstone in the wild, mined it and took the stuff.
     
  21. Micklen

    Micklen

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    Tombstones are iffy.... If you mouse over the stone, it will say who died (if it was a player). I leave player tombstones alone; unless they have been there for a few days (chances are the player doesn't care to get their stuff.)
    If it's a randomly generated tombstone, I say go for it.
    Either way, there are no protections on FTB, so I would not consider it greifing to rob someone's grave.
     

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