Remove forum posts requirement

New classes are up! Yay!

At the moment, following the update, staff is tuning rank up requirements while players are directing all efforts to achieve current requirements, so I found it to be a good moment to suggest this:

To remove (or reduce) forum posts requirement for classes.

For older players this is nothing, I'm 158 post ahead of the 24 required to Noble - Count, however, when I was new this was the most difficult part of ranking. It may look simple, all you got to do is say something, but when you are new you don't know very well how things work and you know no one.

I remember my first post was on a screenshots thread, then on Hunger Games announcement and when I believed to know (a bit of) how server worked, after two weeks playing, I started to give opinion on players suggestions. I kind of had a plan when posting, how to hunt threads where I could post without being a noob, so it took time until I could get a class and even more until I could post freely.

What I have done is something a lot of people would not have patience to do, even less when you consider the profile of (most of) the new players who are very young. So what we get are random threads asking which is your favorite type of pasta sauce, asking questions that could be asked in-game because anyone could answer, or simply threads announcing that they play on ImDeity Kingdoms. I know that the level of grumpyness of what I've said is Barry high, but many other players don't like the situation, to the point some feel the need of 'fighting back' saying the popular 'post something useful, this is just to pad your post count', which do not help them, and in my opinion, makes things worse.

The idea behind this requirement (I guess) is to get people to know the forums, to use it and to know people, it is a good ideal, the problem is that these thread are being responded aggressively and this is the community we present them, to whom they have to talk to.

That said, this is why I suggest the requirement to be removed, or reduced to a very low number of posts so the task is simpler.

 

Even though this would decrease the forum spam, of people commenting useless one liners to get their post count up.
I still have to disagree with your suggestion.

As you said, this mainly regards the newer people.
It makes them come out of their town, with the few townies they know.
And lets them meet the rest of the community.

I think it boosts the new people into the whole community.
And gives these new players the opportunity to learn what's going on around the server.

 

Because posting nigh-useless things on the forums that get instantly bashed by half of the server for their stupidity even though the newbies had nothing better to post about and had no way to increase their rank at all without posting something like that would totally help them get to know the server better. I kind of got around the requirement as well, as I couldn't figure out how to get the desktop version of the ImDeity site on my iTouch and got almost all of my first posts off of one thread, but I do agree that the post requirement should be removed.

 

I find myself agreeing with Driver's point. Most of the first posts that I see people make are in places they are not allowed to- the Trade forum section or the General Discussions thread. I mean, technically, you can't even post on the "Say Hi and Introduce Yourself" thread until you have ten posts!
When I started on this server, I was so worried about posting on the forums, because I didn't know anything about it, and was worried that I didn't have the "right" to post, in fear of saying the wrong thing. I ended up fulfilling my requirements by asking about how to vote for your towns (not understanding that it voted when you voted on Minestatus). Five of them were "craftsmen should be better", one was "y u no dispensers", two were town help, an agreement that the hub should be changed, and a "Quest Suggestions" post. Less than half of these actually contributed to the discussion (I could have easily asked about voting in-game, and my hub post contributed nothing.)
The point is, I think that the forum post requirement should be removed FOR THE FIRST RANK of every class. Let people introduce themselves into the community through the server, let them get their first rank and really feel like a part of the server before making them post on the server forum. I think that this would not only reduce forum spam, it would make new people feel more confident about posting on the forums.

 

You make a good point, certainly.

You make a good point as well, but remember: you joined when there were only 2 ranks: 0 and 1. This is important because the next ranks weren't released for years for some people. This gave everyone time to come into their own here. However, new players will have instant access to these ranks once requirements are fulfilled, significantly reducing time between ranks. This fact completely changes the way we look at players in regards to classes.

I believe the post count should stay, as once you're at Lord/Vendor/Laborer, you have plenty of time to make 19 posts. Remember: posts are counted 99% of the time. The only time they are not counted is when someone is blatantly posting something random in order to get more posts. If your post has context, i.e. in response to someone else or a small post to voice your opinion, they almost always count.

 

Whether or not they count is not the problem. Driver's point is not that it is too difficult to make posts that count, but that, in the beginning of one's time as a Deitian, it serves nearly no purpose. All it does is:
1) Clutter up the forums with unnecessary threads/posts.
2) Frustrate regulars that see frequent repeat posts on the forums.
3) Cause newbies to be criticized for their mistakes that they shouldn't be expected not to make.
The post requirement is not extremely difficult to get, but (for the first level of classes, at least) it serves nearly no purpose and the cons outweigh the pros.

 

I wish a new member would make on of their first posts here to see their view on it all.

 

On a skyrim forum, there is a post simply to introduce yourself. I am not sure if we have that here, but think it would be a good place for newbies to start off.

 

Let me guess staff opinion: "post counts needed to rankup are fair and we are not going to change them".

Why do i think so:
1. post counts have been lowered during new class introduction, you need just 2 posts for first rank (it used to be 3 posts) and 5/7 posts for second rank (it used to be 10 posts).
2. these two ranks offer pretty much everything one can need: Laborers can place water, ice, redstone lamps and rails. Lords can start a town and use logblock. Only Vendors are limited to use just auctions, not shops.
3. higher ranks are not for everyone. Respect the fact that some people deserve them and some dont.

I may lose a shop because my alt doesnt have enough forums posts. I can either spam some forum game or or just accept the fact that some people who are merchants on their main accounts deserve to have a shop more than me. And bid for a shop again after i make enough useful posts.

On the other hand, being restricted to post only in few forums until you have 10 posts is pretty frustrating. This should be lowered or we should have newbie forum including "Introduce yourself and say Hi" and similar topics.

 

You're thinking in the short-term. If we remove these requirements, some people will just completely disregard the forums. Some may not even know we have a forum. But aside from the forum involvement, you still have the issue of ease and what has been for a while. A lot of what I see is kids posting random crap on the threads that go back for months to get their 10 posts. Instead of saying 'boohoo, we should make them not post anymore, it's so annoying,' maybe this should be enforced. Delete the stupid, mindless posts. For God's sake, a zombie could post half the crap people call a post nowadays for their 10 posts. It doesn't take an education to mash your head on a keyboard! Why should we reward them for doing so!

If not for our own pride at this point, it can at least be a 'kind-of' lesson for them. I have a '2nd set of parents' on xbox that I met a couple years back in Call of Duty. I have so much to thank them for, because even in a game they taught me patience. They taught me how to bunker down and pick off the people running by, a skill known as camping. They also played poker on the xbox, which I bought into and learned how to play there, once again working on my patience. I've had nights where I can't sleep, and so I just lay in bed and look up at the same spot on my dark ceiling and meditate all my past mistakes and actions. And although at times I do seem short tempered, snappy, and impatient, I can assure you that I can be just the opposite if I had the ounce of care/respect for the person I am talking to.

Although it may not be carried out to the extent where you can make a large change in someone's life with this act, it will still serve as a minor lesson. If you want something, it wont be free, and it shouldn't always be easy. Noble, Merchant, and Craftsman class I would say would be a between Easy-Medium task depending on how creative you care to be. Those who want to breeze by should not be allowed the chance. This is just how I am, and how I am coached. You should earn what you get.

Edit; I want people who care about forum posts. I go through the forums like old people to newspapers. I check the recent posts every day and tab anything that seems interesting, read all the posts, and then reply if necessary.

 

I see what you did there.

 

Although post numbers may diminish if posting obligation is removed and some few people may completely ignore it, I don't see a real problem.

Forums have a high visibility already, you need to enter imdeity.com to vote, join towns and pick classes, even tho Portal is almost separated from, players still see the most recent posts list. If something attracts them, just click, read and reply if they feel like it.
Second, I think forums already have an unquestionable importance, which I believe to be enough to keep it running without forcing people to post. We have Trade and Events sections which drag some people; We have Towns and Announcements, not much used, but they are easy to click when your town is on recent posts, or something you have been waiting for is being announced; Finally, Help and Suggestions which are 'Post Magnets' for every forum, everyone may need help or don't like something the way it is, soon or later, I've played another game which's forums started from those two sections and expanded to trades, general discussion and even an official newspaper team after people's demand.
If the mandatory posting is removing, people will eventually find their own reasons to post something and get to know other players, instead of the forums inspectors.


About the facilitation of achieving ranks, I simply don't understand it.
It is the complete oppose to how things usually work, newbies have to make up to 10 posts on limited sections before they can get a rank which grants them perks, and that after already fulfilling other requirements that vary from in-game money to server online time, account age and server votes. There is more to achieve than posts to get a class, removing it is no 'ranks give-away' and if people think that to be one of the hardest tasks to complete, it shouldn't be, so there is something wrong and it is not with who is trying to post I'd say.
While difficult to new players, older players don't even notice it, I don't mean years old players, some 2 months old players already have over 50 posts, by posting slowly and naturally. For alternate account I find it funny and weird, imagine you are going to post something then: 'uh no, I better post on my alt account so I pad it's post count'.

What I got from what I see here, and from outside is that talking, interacting with people should be no task. It has to come from you when you feel like it. Some can do it easily, some can't, some have things to discuss, some have nothing to say. My view is that the more comfortable you leave people to conversate, more they talk, and better they talk.

 

Get over it everyone. The forum posts are there to increase community activity. You do not have to respond/look at the dumb posts. Moderators do that. Unless its too much for them to moderate its not a problem and IS accomplishing the task at getting those outside. They will never learn how to post on the forums if they aren't posting on the forums. At least this gives an opportunity for those of us to help/guide them into making proper posts so that our ImDeity Community can prosper.

 

Brytton sums up a little of what I had typed, but unfortunately there was a small power outage before I could post it. Here is what I had anyway:

ImDeity gives off a very role-play vibe from having classes. Just like any MMO or game where you are forced to choose a class or a specialization, you are playing a role. Without any class, one is an unskilled "laborer" who is "too dumb" to know how to do anything that requires a skill or a class. When one achieves mastery of certain skills, they rank up in their class. But just like all master shoemakers and blacksmiths before, one must start in as an "apprentice". One of the many ways apprentices learned how to become masters in their craft was by asking questions and talking about how to do it. The best way to gauge if people are talking is through post count.

Another way to look at it is that while your character that you are roleplaying benefits from being able to do what other's can't and is limited by not being able to do what other characters can, the role-player can take a step back and see everything that is happening. This can lead to discussions on how things could be better or different, things could be added or removed, or just questions about how things work that aren't quite clear to you. It is making sure that, provided the role-player cares enough to get a class, that the role-player is up to speed on how things work and how things can progress. It doesn't even need to be on a server level, that is the wonderful thing about towns. One can simply hop on the forums and discuss a project that currently exists in a town, propose a new project, or even ask about some houses or guidelines. Forum posts simply talking to your neighbors count. It is a bit of a rough way to do it, but it makes sure people understand that the server and its staff want you to talk and want you to be a collaborative community. Some people might see it as an evil way to get them to interact with people that they don't want to be forced to interact with, but if there is absolutely no one you are willing to say "Hi" to, then what are you even doing online?

If you are new and are having difficulty finding a thread to post in that is current and grabs your interest in some way, your standards are too high. Town threads seem to be a very easy stopping place, and it seems like very few towns don't have a town thread. Towns could even make it easier on their residents by either having some form of application to fill out, or by asking residents say hello and tell everyone a little bit about themselves, i.e. their favorite food, extra hobbies, favorite books, or even pet peeves. One post down right there. A second post that is really easy to get out of the way when one joins is to go to an announcement thread and find the announcement of something that either makes you excited or is what drew you to the server in the first place. Make a post in that thread telling everyone how you appreciate this server having that particular feature.

The goal of having people post is to get them to become part of the community. The best way to get new players to become part of the community is to require some forum posts. That ensures that they are at least looking at the forums in some fashion, just like a teacher will assign the questions at the end of a chapter, it is to ensure you read the chapter. Without someone posting on the forums, the only way to become part of the community is in game, which is a little more difficult. You can only talk to whoever is online at the time, whereas on the forums, you can discuss and get the ideas of everyone who visits. Only being able to talk to the people currently online also means that you can only trade with the people currently online (usually between a merchant and one of the other classes), you can only advertise your services (craftsman), wares (merchant), and town (noble) with whoever happens to be online. Depending on when you play, that could be quite a bummer. If you utilize the forum as a resource, which post requirements can get you to do, then you can advertise your services, wares, and town to all the people who read the forums. To post intelligently, you have to read the forums, so you are going to read town and trade threads. You can learn a lot about doing what you want to do in your chosen class by observing what others are already doing. Reading the forums and posting in them breeds familiarity and facilitates being tuned in to what is going on in the server, whether it be a town sponsored event or a new release of classes.

Without the forums, it is more difficult for players to help other and be helped, so requiring posts for players to play on this server the way it was intended to be played allows everyone to help each other.

 

This server has taught me one very big thing; If it does not effect you, do not worry about it. This issue, due to my own nature when I write about something I believe in very much, has gotten me banned on multiple occasions, and very close to being bad. At the best, it earned me a bad reputation. You're more mellow than me, Driver, but you're fighting for something that will have 0 effect on you as a player overall. You think this will attract more players and you're right. But it's like breeding all cows just for the sake of having more cows. If I owned a ranch, I'd rather produce small amounts of Grade A milk and beef than large amounts of Grace C milk and beef. In server terms; I'd rather have 20 quality players than 200 numb-skulls per day, because they would just quit and someone else would fill their spot.

 

The idea that I should leave things as they are, either because they do not affect me or simply because I 'have to get over it' (it won't change anyway), is something I cannot agree.
Although, I see your point on the post overall and I'll abandon this suggestion, at least part of it, if you read between the lines it is possible to see that I am not attacking newbies, actually the extreme oppose, which is still possible to do in various other ways.

I am convinced that this is what most agree to be the best for the community, by so, I have to get over it.

For final considerations then, I'd like to add that if you really think mandatory posts for newbies is something good for them, that helps them to get into the community, be part of it, do more than clicking their threads to leave a bitter note about how they are just padding their post count. If that is what you think you should do, remember the idea defended here, that maybe the best is to say nothing at all, just let them be.

Thanks Moji, one of the few people I know that actually make me think xD And sorry if my interior Tardar Sauce is growing up.

 

My idea is that they have to write the required posts, and if they're stupid, worthless posts, the moderators should delete the posts. I know of many people on this server who I claim to be brain-dead and immature and just plain old stupid. The only way to stop that kind of behavior and action is to up the authority (moderation). If we give them no requirements, or as we do now, give them the requirements saying they cannot post dumb comments and they do, then we're going to have a server full of nitwits. As my half-crazed history teacher says 'Cull the herd'.

If it were up to me, you would need to spell and construct sentences like a mature human being (foreign does not count, that's understandable). IF you cannot do this, you would be banned from the server. But, Deity has a different mindset, which is fine. More people = more money. More money = better server. Better server = more people. Repeat the cycle. That's fine in my book, I confine myself to the literate people. It sounds elitist and as if it is from someone who could not understand what it is like to be an immature child. Although not illiterate, I was sure a big pain in the butt, you can ask Deity about that one. I know this is a game, but that's all kids play nowadays. So lessons of maturity will need to start coming from the people and things in the game.

Like I said before; I matured because of a wonderful couple who live in Georgia who sacrificed their happiness and peaceful/not annoying gaming sessions to teach me patience and told me my flaws and how I should fix them. I'm more grateful to them then I ever have been to anyone else in the world aside from my parents. So if you see someone who is clearly willing to take criticism and need it, please do. Constructively. It will benefit all of the server, and it will benefit the person being criticized. I think we'll just have to settle for this, as I doubt the moderators care to patrol the forums for useless posts. Maybe I'll just start using my report option, though.

 

Driver, post counts needed for rankup in classes were LOWERED during class update. Why didnt anyone complain about post count requirement before?

 

I'm kinda confused now xD

At first I didn't knew the posts required for rank up were lowered, until you said that on your first post, and actually, now I came to think that requiring post is actually good for the server.

I have complained because of those various random threads that have shown up, people complaining about it and forum vigilantes attacking them.
The cause, from my perspective, were not only the people who posted them, but mostly the rank ups which forced them to post when there was nothing good to be said.
The solution I found was to remove it since, I used to think, it adds nothing to the server, the supposed main goal was to introduce this people to the community and we see a lot of new friendships being formed from that.

But now I think differently, the post requirement has another function I have not considered (which Mojinax explained) that adds more pros than cons, and even nulls some cons it had before.