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Town Blacklisting?

Discussion in 'Suggestions / Ideas' started by Majora_Unmasked, January 19, 2015.

?

Is this a good idea?

  1. Yes (say why in the comments)

    51.9%
  2. No (say why in the comments)

    48.1%
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  1. Majora_Unmasked

    Majora_Unmasked

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    Many towns are plagued by griefers, thieves, and just all-around annoyances quite often. The only solution my own town was offered when such was the case was to just /t eject them whenever they are on our plots. Obviously, that in itself has some limitations: Not every plot within our area was claimed, for we had difficulties with taxes already. In addition, doesn't it seem ludicrous that these people can roam the town freely unless someone is in front of them, /t ejecting them? The only alternative we had found was to lock down all our warps and set the town as private, which made us seem a little less welcoming than we really were.
    I suggest the following array of commands and events, to help take preventative action against this recurring and shared problem.

    • /t ban <username> - adds the player with that username (perhaps by their UUID?) to the town's blacklist.
    • /t blacklist [townname] - access the town blacklist
    • When a blacklisted player attempts to walk to the town, they are sent to the main spawn, with a message saying "You are banned from %townname%"
    • When a blacklisted player attempts to teleport to said town, it can do just the same, or perhaps even stop the teleportation entirely.
    • /t banned - user can see what towns he is banned in, perhaps by which staff member
    I do not believe this would be expensive, as far as server resources would go; perhaps I can even help code it if needed.

    I hope whoever reads this agrees that this would be a good and productive idea; and if you don't, well, thank you for at least taking the time to read it.
    Regards,
    Majora
     
    Last edited: January 19, 2015
    melvin484, MnM_World and Rmarmorstein like this.
  2. Rmarmorstein

    Rmarmorstein

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    IIRC, there used to be something, i believe /t eject that did something similar to this. It was definitely a handy tool
     
  3. Majora_Unmasked

    Majora_Unmasked

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    /t eject only works if the player is currently standing on a claimed plot. It's more of a reactive measure than a preventative one.
     
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  4. Sephronia

    Sephronia

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    Hi all,

    I can see merit in this, however I can also see the opportunity for abuse and bullying, as well as being superfluous.
    We already have a system in place to deal with greifers and thieves, (making a ticket) as well as active server staff.
    This wont stop griefing/stealing, just repeat griefing/stealing by the same person, which our ban system already covers, as well as MCbans. This feels like a local rep system.

    Many thanks,
    Seph
     
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  5. Majora_Unmasked

    Majora_Unmasked

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    Thank you for replying. I do see what you mean, that the system could be easily abused. Perhaps towns would have to pay to ban someone?
     
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  6. Sephronia

    Sephronia

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    I do not like the sound of that either. I understand what you are trying to do, but I feel it goes against the spirit of the server. Sounds like 'pay to win', or more ' pay to ostracize'.

    Many thanks,
    Seph
     
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  7. Majora_Unmasked

    Majora_Unmasked

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    I understand, but I shall stand by this idea and wait for more viewpoints, as the events highlighted in the introduction were events of much indignation.
     
  8. BarryX15

    BarryX15

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    Perhaps towns would have to pay bigger tax and bonus plots for protecting more land?
     
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  9. legoazurp

    legoazurp

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    That, or you could set your plot permissions for access to T, that way only townys may enter it.
     
  10. Gwenhywar

    Gwenhywar

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    I like to speak frankly regarding this topic, which might lead to some repititions of things mentioned before. However, I want to give you a full picture what is on my mind, when reading this and how I see this.

    I see how players griefing your town is an issue. Repeated griefing is ofc another issue. But however the ejecting of players permanently and making a black list is not an option for several reasons.

    If your town is griefed by someone who is a town member it is a town matter and you will have to deal with it anyways and this most likely leads to a kick out of the town. Yes, the player might come back and cause more trouble, however, he is not a town member anymore and you can file a ticket and none of us will say "no" for a punishment and rollback. This counts for claimed and unclaimed plots generally. Yes we had occasions that we told mayors to claim a certain part ofm their town since it was griefed daily by several ppl, but usually it does not matter. So, if the player i.e. gets a 2 day ban then comes back and griefs again, yes, it might be annoying, but however you make a ticket again and will get a rollback again. Generally three bans for the same thing will cause a perm ban for the player. So you will have the maximum annoyance of 3 times griefing.

    I personally believe in our policy of you might make stupid mistakes (i.e. griefing), you get a short ban but then are back in the game as if nothing happened as long as you stick to the rules. We have a lot of kids that do that kind of stupid stuff and they are supposed to learn. I would like to stick to that policy. Blacklists like the one you suggested or others there have been suggested before would completely act against that policy. Staff knows and is supposed to know about the banning history, I am sorry to say, but not everyone else has to know. We want our player base to indulge players who did wrong a bit, to give chances just like we do. That needs impartiality and that can only be demanded if there is nothing like a blacklist.

    I personally know how insulting or depressing grief can be, I had enough towns myself, but I ask you to understand that my points and the one by Seph add up to each other. We want to have a friendly environment here as much as possible. To stigmatize people will not help that.
     
  11. ngennaro

    ngennaro

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    What if instead of a permanent blacklist as mentioned above it was a temp ban blacklist? Meaning instead of permanently banning someone from tow they are banned for day two weeks. They would receive a mail saying why there where banned from town and when they could come back. I feel that would solve some problems with people greifing towns while also allowing the previously mentioned idea of letting people have second chances :)
     
  12. Gwenhywar

    Gwenhywar

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    Like I already said, those things should be handled by server staff and not town staff. Why should we ban for one issue twice? They would be punished twice at least.
     
  13. Leviathan_Ziz

    Leviathan_Ziz

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    It's called:

    "Sensible town placement" (Don't hug spawn)
    and
    "Don't make a spawn that is openable/open to anyone."
    and to counter the expected counter
    "If people want to visit, they can be let in by town members."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: January 20, 2015
  14. super_soup

    super_soup

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    Honestly what happened to second chances. This seems like a really extreme measure, especially if you ban a new player who wasn't familiar with the rules
     
  15. Majora_Unmasked

    Majora_Unmasked

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    Let's be honest here, the person I referred to in prefacing this idea is far from new.
     
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  16. heinz_gruber

    heinz_gruber

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    I voted yes, i think my reasons for some kind of blacklist are valid, i have been a mayor for 3 years and i believe we need to be flexible in certain cases, where the mayor can take emergency action.


    It comes to a point where the mayor acts in the best interests of his or her town


    Lets also be honest, how many of the current staff or moderators are mayors, secondly how many of those mayors are running big residential districts?
    I am not saying the staff have no clue, but it is very short sighted to argue against something which does not affect them due to being able to hand out punishment quickly.

    Personally if a mayor does not want an individual to be able to go to his or her town, then that is the mayors choice, and no one should be able to stand in the way of that.

    My reasons for giving mayors 100 percent control are due to the fact that they either worked hard or paid to get a town, and as such should be able to do whatever they want, even if it means excluding an individual, my back story for this is long and fickle, and i will not be specific, however i will say that if a mayor finds an issue with an individual, he should not be encumbered in defending his or her town.

    Therefore i would say mayors need more slack, and more co operation and leniency from staff members on certain issues, because the rules can only cover so much, and anyone who is smart or devious enough will know exactly how he can work the system and get his or her enemies banned/temp banned from the server by manipulating gullible people.

    Nothing is ever black and white although many seem to think they can make decisions which will affect other peoples time on this server, what usually happens is someone gets banned, then his or her friends go inactive, and the server gradually goes silent. And anyone else left becomes resentful because they were not treated with any compassion or genuine understanding of how some people can behave.

    In light of my last sentence, can we forget the black list and get a grey list instead?

    Secondly i dont see how a blacklist can be superfluous, just because the staff can ban people, and dish out punishment, does not make it an efficient system.

    I would rather see a blacklist as an addition whereby if you catch an active grief. rather than wait for someone to answer a ticket, the mayor can instantly stop it rather that sit there like a stupid lemon and watch it unfold, then a mod turns up and says "yeah it will require a rollback"
    You wait patiently for a rollback then you find the rollback was not large enough and the whole thing is messed up then. Also rollbacks do not take every item into account or its orientation "found that out the hard way with rails 3 years ago"

    Why do people say no? when they do not know every scenario?
     
    Last edited: January 21, 2015
  17. The_Yogs

    The_Yogs

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    Claim a box around the spawn and warp chunks.
    Set town access permissions to your liking.
    Change it (access perms) to T when you feel threatened by outsiders.

    Get creative mayors.

    The idea of abuse is far fetched regardless. Give the blacklist ability to higher level nobles if it is that concerning. That will motivate them to work for a higher rank.

    Giving some "power" to players isn't a bad thing either...
     
  18. heinz_gruber

    heinz_gruber

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    I tried your last suggestion on the previous map, all i got was a ton of complaints from non town residents because they rode horses into the protected zones and got warped to spawn without their horse.
    It just caused more problems.

    Does it really prevent greifing 100%? if someone who is trusted goes inside that box area of plots, and then turns cloak on you, they are on unclaimed land and you cannot evict them from those plots without first claiming them ergo you are still powerless, so i don't recommend that course either. A town should have all or most of its plot protected, yes it costs more money, but a good team of friends and staff can easily manage the daily tax for a large town if they are active.

    But 100 percent agree with you Yogs on giving more power to nobles possibly, i would prefer mayor only powers in this case.

    In my mind the only difference between a "/town blacklist (name)" and a "/t eject (name)" is that the blacklist would be permanent and cannot be over ridden by any staff members, this would mean that a mayor can deny someone access without having to notify all of the town staff first.

    I know what you are thinking, "whats the big problem notifying your staff?" And it is a good question that has a very simple answer.
    Communication
    This is sometimes an issue, if you have a town with more staff members than can fit into a conversation on the forums, then you need multiple conversations, or rooms with message boards in game which denies privacy, and it gets very messy, so town communication can be hard sometimes, for this Teamspeak really helps, but it is not a written document that can be reread when you need to. I guess the only other option would be something like googledoc.

    But yes, right now i am facing a communication crisis with my town staff, because i cannot get them all in the conversation on the forums.
    If i deny someone the right to be in or on my town property, then being able to blacklist them simply means that player wont be accepted into the town by any of my staff team, without all the messy clerical work on my part, and my time is precious xD

    Lets get one thing clear, this is just my opinion on this thread, my opinion of Deity and the server is vastly different to anything expressed here.
    My REAL opinion of the server is that Deity should put this on the back burner and work on some of the other issues which can make the server more fun for all xD

    Anyways, time to get to work on my town! aint nobody got time for that!
     
    Last edited: January 21, 2015
  19. SouthPawRabbit

    SouthPawRabbit

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    Now, what if we flip this around, and have something like a white list? o_O

    It would not be excluding, but rather letting people who you trust to be in the town. This would be an extension to setting town to private.
    For example, if there are people you trust who you want to allow in your town, but say you don't want to add them to your friends list, you could add them to the town white list so it is as if they were like a town member.
     
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  20. theboxghost

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    I think the simplest answer is to close your town and plots to people that aren't residents, that kicks them back to /main. This is very effective and it prevents people from coming into your town or going on your plots. It doesn't stop people from going onto plots that are not claimed though. Perhaps it would be a reasonable suggestion to have the blocks within let's say 300 blocks of the town plots also be included in the barrier that is made when the town is closed? I don't know that this is necessary, but maybe an option.
     
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