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How many exceptions does the rule need to become useless ?

Discussion in 'Kingdoms General' started by BarryX15, March 5, 2016.

  1. BarryX15

    BarryX15

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    New class ranks and requirements came in September 2013:

    Since then, we had a map reset and some merchants have been excused from this class requirement, as i have been told when i pointed that out.

    It seems like there still was not enough upgrading possibilites for merchants - there is 36 shop owners and 12 of them don't have proper (e.g. level 2, Financier) rank - remember that they had over 11 months to rank up.

    If one third of players cannot meet the rule requirement, is it their fault or is the rule wrong? Should players be punished or should the rule be changed?
     
  2. Mojinax

    Mojinax

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    Well, if that's the case then I think obviously the people who own the shops that are not Financier need to have the shops taken away from them. If that doesn't sound appealing, as it does not to me, then I think that mayors should be allowed to be craftsmen/merchants even if they own a town. Craftsmen still get the bad end of the deal out of this, but really craftsmen is more of a self-sufficient type of deal now more than it is a trade. The reason I prefer this strategy as opposed to taking the 12 shop owner's shops away is because we have a weak enough economy as is. I don't think we have enough active shop owners to be able to take 12 of them away, but I guess that would depend on the status of those 12 shop owners too. If we were the booming 50-75 person daily server we were a few years in the past - where it was an actual competition to win a shop, then I'd say they should be stripped of their shops. Sadly though, it's not :l .
     
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  3. legoazurp

    legoazurp

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    I think that maybe some rules should be reviewed. Most of these rules were made when the imdeity community was much larger. We might want to change some of them to favor the new situation of the server.
     
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  4. BarryX15

    BarryX15

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    - Half of that dozen went inactive and never ranked up.
    - Two somehow lost the rank (i am positive that at least one of them had proper class/rank before and they never switched classes so no idea what happened).
    - One closed the shop, changed the class, reopened the shop but forgot to change the class back.
    - One went inactive being the alt account while its owner is still somehow active on the main account.
    - One changed the name and the class few times, i dont even want to investigate who owns that account now.
    - One changed the name, returned, rebuilt the shop but didn't rank up.

    Only one of these shop owners is active and appearing regularly on /mall top. The rest occasionally fills a niche when someone wants to buy stuff that no other shop has in stock.
     
  5. MasahiroRina

    MasahiroRina

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    I think it's really amusing that the shops are still active when the players aren't. Are they lucrative? What's happening with that dei?
     
  6. Mojinax

    Mojinax

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    Well then I would send each of these people a conversation requesting they change their rank within 3 days (They broke the rules, there should be little leniency), and then given the time they need to make it to Financier. If they cannot or do not show the intention of making it to Financier, then the shops should be taken away from them. Anyone who does not reply or does not comply within the initial 3 day window should have their shops taken away from them.

    I would also suggest a rework or some sort of buff to the malls and the way they are run. If I were the owner of this server (God forbid) it would have been shut down months ago, doing well under an open-door (informing the players at least once a week) policy, shifted the server's focus away from towny, or at least kept everything relevant and interesting. Shops and malls are not interesting, and their use is dwindling. As I had said, they're great for a thriving economy - and we are not that. So I do apologize for leading this thread a bit off topic, but I think it would be beneficial to find a workaround instead of having maybe 10-20% of shop owners being the fuel to our engine we call an economy.
     
  7. Driver_X

    Driver_X

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    Ignoring the class issue for a moment, I believe inactive owners should have their shops taken.

    Of 40 shops available, only 21 are owned by players who have logged in at least once this year, and I can see 3 more that would probably login to keep their shops (if that was decided to be the criteria for removal). So, 16 out of 40 shops would be shut down.

    What I see is that the only way in which shutting down these shops would harm the economy is the lack of competition for new shop auctions . I would be surprised if these inactive shops have at least one sale per week - and we could say that they are helping the economy somehow, so I say we are better off without them.

    My suggestion for that lack of competition would be to remove malls Blue and Purple entirely and move any active shops from these to malls Red and Green.
    Red and Green have, together, 24 stalls and I have counted 24 players who would possibly make an effort to keep their shops. Any of those that happen to be inactive when the transition is done, or cannot meet the class requirements (Financier), would have their shops taken and auctioned for new Merchants - who have been waiting a while for that to happen.
    As Lego said, some of our features or rules may not fit well to our current situation and that adaptation is the most obvious to me: It is easy to do, to understand and to revert.

    On a side note: In my view, the problem with our economy is not the mall system itself. The problem is that there is no demand for resources: Either because we have a small player base or because players are simply not building so much. That's where I see buffs and new systems making a difference because building is what fuels a Minecraft economy - shop owners are more like a semi-automatic gearbox lol
     
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  8. BarryX15

    BarryX15

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    Dei just goes to/from inactive shop owner's money. If the shop owner sets only B price (you can buy from the shop), then the shop is dead once it runs out of stock. If the shop owner sets also S price (you can sell to the shop), then the shop can be restocked by anyone even if the owner is inactive (as long as the owner still has Dei to pay to suppliers). But it also depends on stock, balancing the price, offer and demand of goods, generally you need to check/restock the shop at least once in few days/weeks to keep it running.

    What if those who want to own a shop now could just rank up to Financier and ask to get the stall when there is some available? (yes, for free. low demand, big offer = no need for bidding)
     
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  9. MasahiroRina

    MasahiroRina

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    Well, the thing is, if those unmanned shops are still running, why shut them down? They still provide dei to the craftsmen/laborers who can't sell their own goods.

    Actually I can think of a couple reasons - the price they sell goods at is fixed, doesn't fluctuate with the economy. Basically even if demand for that item goes up, every time someone restocks that shop it undercuts the other merchants... more of a socialist venture than a free market model. Another reason to shut them down is that they might be offering goods that no one wants to buy - just taking up server processing time with full chests and increasing lag around the shops. Or perhaps they have empty chests that no one wants to fill - or that there is no dei for the filling - just clogging up search results in that case.

    Overall I'd rather the dei went to live players, and recirculated through the economy. Getting stuck in some inactive guy's pocket is really against my breed of real-life socialism.

    However - if the server changes anything about how the shops were run, I'd much see a change in the locations - have the merchants build their own stores in their own towns. First of all, that would allow more customization of the shop, impressive builds and spread out decorations. Second, larger shop inventories (because they don't have to compete with other merchants for lag). Third, it would encourage exploration between the towns and networking within the towns. Nobles and merchants would have to work together to "zone" a good place within sight of the town warp for the town marketplace. Perhaps prime placement of shops would be determined by plot taxes. The website could still reflect the location of the shop - instead of saying "red" or "green" it could say "Caldera" or "Doha"... etc.

    Sure, it would be inconvenient to not have a "mall".... but it would feel more like an RPG.

    EDIT: This doesn't really address the question of "do we even need shops?" I like 'em. I think they are very nice for the RPG feel. I especially think they serve an important part of getting money for beginners to the server. Honestly, selling to the shops is one of the biggest ways that I ever made money on this server. I would make way more money selling raw materials to shops than I would harvesting gold or doing odd jobs for people. (It really doesn't help if someone tries to hire me for a job that was WAAAYYYY TOOOOOO BIIIIIIG for two people, but that's a completely unrelated story)
     
    Last edited: March 6, 2016
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  10. Driver_X

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    I can't see any problem with that. I doubt we would have less shops available than Financiers ready to take them, so the competition is rather pointless, except maybe for shop location.
     
  11. squeezal

    squeezal

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    A well run shop can have a huge impact on a town. Just look at what IDS did for Caldera under Aefroyms. We grew immensely while they were active. You don't necessarily need a mall-like shop for that, but with them as competition, that sort of shop is a lot harder to pull off now.
    I've been trying to get a shop with my alt for a few months. Even losing one in bidding would be better than not being able to try for one at all. At least then I know we have active merchants I can try to supply instead.
     

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