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How Favoritism, Passive-Aggresiveness, and Unfairness/Bias is affecting this server

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by melvin484, February 12, 2016.

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  1. Mojinax

    Mojinax

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    Let's be honest... We all know the fix to this server, just none of us are willing to step up and be grown adults about it.

    We need to bring back karaoke night or I fear the server will slip even further.
     
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  2. heinz_gruber

    heinz_gruber

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    I have always taken great offense that you think someones online time has anything to do with the validity of their opinion. how incredibly insulting. You said a similar thing to me once, and to be honest i feel like my opinion is worth a whole lot more than you would ever give me credit for but whatever. yes my recent inactivity is because i have been very busy on my professional life and things are reflecting that hard work in my success. But that will never erase the years spent playing here....

    Regarding questioning staff members please refer to http://imdeity.com/threads/come-on-now.19551/page-3#post-244877

    Sorry but your statement and Arwenden's do not align.
     
    Last edited: February 12, 2016
  3. Watif2711

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    I feel that this was made in the midst of anger and rage and feeling that have been felt in past. I personally don't care I don't relatively see bias on my end at least for me and everyone has their circles because they are comfortable with different people. I personally love all the mods, some more than others but anyway I don't see it as along time player of here 4 years I've seen a lot.

    Thank you-Watif
     
  4. Mojinax

    Mojinax

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    I didn't know about this quote from Arwenden, but it really just about sums anything up that I would want to prove. Funny because it was on one of my threads, too... Wondering how I missed that XD. So with this in combination with Deer's proposal to work out our problems, there really doesn't seem to be a lot more to talk about in terms of this. Now I guess we just need to work towards solving our issues.
     
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  5. heinz_gruber

    heinz_gruber

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    Yes Arwenden is the bestest <3
     
  6. Gwenhywar

    Gwenhywar

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    Hello melvin,
    I like to respond to your last words shortly (and to those who also commented about me). I am not inactive in every way. I read the forums daily, I still answer player questions to me, sometimes I just sit silently and read webchat and I am still informed. However, you are correct, I did not log in the game for quite a while. I have been mod and head mod for a long time now. I always faced the predjudice of being biassed, but I think I have proven a couple of times well, that I am not. I got people back on the server, that I did not like personally, cause they insulted me in the most hurtful and personal ways. I fought with staff members I like about their behavior to other players and staff or supported staff members that I do not like personally. I supported way more players than supported staff members with reasoning and understanding and of course also had to ban or punish some. If you like a personal convo about the issues in detail, I am more than happy to do that. This is my job here and what I like to do. I can also come online on TS to talk if needed, please just take note that I am in the EU timezone. :) If you see the need to communicate with me feel free to message me. I abandoned playing minecraft, but not the server. :)

    Cheers,
    Gwen

    EDIT (19 mins after posting): My line " If you see the need to communicate with me feel free to message me" could sound like I would not see a need or see it as a burden, but I am actually open to all thoughts and like to hear opinions.
     
    Last edited: February 12, 2016
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  7. Qazz

    Qazz

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    I think I may have improperly worded the first bit of that statement of mine you quoted. I more so meant that it is not a player's duty to tell a moderator how they should be moderating. It's something I've seen some do to the mods in the past and I'd imagine it's extremely insulting to the staff. If there needed to be a change in the way they were moderating, someone in a position above them (Gwen or Deity) would tell them, I'm almost certain. It's been said multiple times in the past to many players that if there is an issue with the way a staff member is behaving, to start a private conversation on the forums with Gwenhywar. Saying small things here and there are fine but the way I've seen some players go about it is outright rude and disrespectful, hence my opinion on the matter. I do not at all disagree with Arwenden, but what the players have been doing is not at all what she said. Also, since you referenced her post specifically, something else she said was that the idea of being nicer to players should not be discounted. I agree with that as well, however I have seen attempts at being nice by staff and their instruction has been outright ignored. It's a path that's been explored already. If you want the staff to be nicer, the community needs to step in and help. The staff have to get stern when instruction is ignored. I've seen it, it's not a pretty sight. If listened to the first time around then the staff over time would become more easy going, I guarantee it.

    Now, on to why I said what I did about inactivity. I'm not discounting anybody's opinion. When a player is removed from the community for an extended period of time for any number of reasons, they are not up to date on current server engagements. What they say and think can be easily influenced by the setting of the server when they left as opposed to what it currently is. If a player is inactive then that then means that their view of the server is outdated, and there needs to be a significant period of time where they catch up with what's been happening. I never meant for my statement to mean "your opinion doesn't matter", rather just that if someone isn't here, they may not be completely informed and their viewpoint, because of that, might suffer.
     
  8. Mojinax

    Mojinax

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    What Deer suggested is what Arwenden probably would have wanted when she made that post. To sit down and formally address the issues we have with each other. It's important to note that the staff are not trained professionals. In most cases they are people with a likeness to Deity's ideals and a general positive impact on the server. As far as I am concerned, none of them boast a degree in ethical or moral studies, they just use the rules as a guideline. Rules that were also made by people without degrees in ethical or moral studies. If you do have a degree in these studies are are a staff member, do correct me.

    As I know and hate all too much, this server is more akin to a dictatorship than anything else (I have found this out first through being told by a staff member, and secondly through realizing from past experiences). Deity trusts that the moderators will enforce the rules as they see fair and fit, and they do. Just the issue arises when the player does not see it as fair or fit. Our appeals process for this tells us to send a conversation to a head-mod whom most would consider inactive (not a shot at you, Gwen. This is just the general population's view before today). So we've nowhere else to go but /ot, /tell, or the forums. And in the latest event, even my ability to privately protest a moderator's call was met with multiple staff members jumping in to tell me to stop and the threat to ban me if I sent a /tell to that moderator. I was not redirected to Gwen, I was told to stop and to be quiet. As it turned out, the whole issue was a misunderstanding on my part and I apologized. But it's a wake up call that I was threatened to be banned for something I classify as a personal issue (him not wanting to deal with explaining to me, and me refuting it). That's not okay to me. That's stepping in and using a power to protect others from harassment, griefing, and stealing and applying it to oppress or silence something you view as a nuisance.

    I don't expect you to be able to relate. I certainly cannot relate to the situation I'm always told to take - which is take my slap on the wrist and move on (AKA what most of the server does apparently). That's not me. It will never be me. Fly me to a monastery and leave me there for a decade. I'll never understand why people don't speak their mind and be honest about how they feel, and instead just have complete faith in the judgment of non-elected persons of power. It doesn't make me a bad person because I'm different, and because I want them to sit down and speak to me like the peer I view them as, and not the blunt-warning authority figure they usually are over /ot or /web. I've spent the last couple of years being pissed about why I'm different, and why I can't just learn to keep my mouth shut and to accept what other's say. I don't think it's a fault of my own anymore, at least not fully. In many ways it's a strength that I don't just accept things as they are. I think the fault lies in the way I and others are dealt with. That's what leads to these massive explosions of hatred and divides.
     
    Last edited: February 12, 2016
  9. Sephronia

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    Mojinax,

    I've let you continue to misrepresent what happened and malign my judgement, hoping that the discussion out of this would go somewhere constructive. For the most part, it has, but I am sick of seeing my name put up and your 'reasoning' of what happened. I will be blunt and set this straight so hopefully the points raised by other people can be focused on more.

    You were moderated, by myself, once, politely and gently. 'Please use /l or /tc, Mojinax'. I did such because, from my point of view, you used the incorrect channel three times, after logging in from Webchat. Fiver informed me that it was a slip-up with Town Chat. I was at the point of saying that it was no big deal then when you took it upon yourself to firstly insult me by claiming I was doing it just to get a 'low blow' in on you and then went on to lecture me about how long you've been on the server. I told you to let it drop, twice. You couldn't take that as an answer and wanted to continue a discussion in private about it, which I told you that I didn't want.

    My options were what? Mute you? That does nothing, since you would have just moved it to /tell anyway, against what I had requested. When someone asks you to drop a subject, the courteous thing to do would be drop it. You were not told to take it up with Gwen, because, as you pointed out, you've been here long enough to know the processes.

    It was not a personal issue. It was a staff issue. You were given a request, twice, by a staff member which you refused, twice. The only thing that made you stop was a mute by Vershye and a direct request by Deity.

    Every time I've had to deal with you, I end up spending an hour being lectured, usually in private, with a patronising tone, about the ways you would do things. I'm bashing my head against a brick wall because you have zero respect for my opinion as a player, my judgement as staff or my integrity as a person.

    I can start to take your actions towards me as a personal issue, in which case, they are harassment and I will be taking them through the correct channels to Gwenhywar.

    As for everyone else in this thread, please continue the discussions. There are good points being raised and I think these threads are helpful in highlighting issues players feel are important.

    Many thanks,
    Seph
     
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  10. heinz_gruber

    heinz_gruber

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    The part i do not understand Qazz is "I more so meant that it is not a player's duty to tell a moderator how they should be moderating. It's something I've seen some do to the mods in the past and I'd imagine it's extremely insulting to the staff"

    You say you do not disagree with Arwenden at all, however i have read the post dozens of times, and to me it seems like that is exactly what you are doing, disagreeing with it. It makes for very confusing reading when the points made don't seem to align.

    "I more so meant that it is not a player's duty to tell a moderator how they should be moderating. It's something I've seen some do to the mods in the past and I'd imagine it's extremely insulting to the staff"

    Arwenden said "it is everybody's duty to to question the staff"

    So what you are saying is the staff cannot take a criticism or insult without getting angry or petty? Or shouldn't have to hold back at all? That sounds exactly what you are saying. Staff are not and should never be beyond reproach just like the majority of players.

    Well, what I am saying is that if the staff and players put more effort into not rubbing people the wrong way, there will be less need to complain, as I have felt the need to several times. What my intention is, is to dampen the flaming attitudes, which is the whole point of speaking out about our true feelings. To say that I have to be currently active and completely up to to speed in order to have my opinion validated regarding how I see the same attitudes of the same people making the same mistakes over and over makes me cry lols.

    My patience runs thin thinking about how things have changed for me which cures my problem, yet the same people have not changed but merely altered targets with the same vitriol. = let's make Heinz feel he has won, but we won't change tactics only targets, but if Heinz doesn't know he won't complain anymore. Well newsflash my inbox is full........

    What you suggest is that if a staff member is out of line we should use protocol to resolve this, which might of worked for me in the past, does not alter the fact that it still continues in the background only to other people. Which makes me think nothing has really changed, again putting dirt blocks over the cracks which only hides them but solves nothing in the long run.

    There are lots of times where people forgo the respect we all deserve just for a cheap shot.
    Which is exactly how I see your comment regarding online time = status in your eyes.

    Maybe your statement could apply if I was talking about the server or something in which I may need to be recently informed, but when it is about people's attitudes that I have seen in the past and present and i look and see nothing has changed, then no one has the right to say "you are not online enough to chime in" because despite little game time I have regularly been online and received convo's from players who are saying the exact same thing but are too scared to speak up to a staff member because they DO get shot down and outnumbered from people who refuse to make allowances or accommodations.

    Despite the back pedaling done here you have made yourself very clear by how you treat us and yet despite a multitude of complaints you have not been publicly dragged through the mud like myself or mojinax Have been. Because that is the entire point I feel melvin tried to make, there are rules for the players and others for the staff and you.

    I have a lot of good things to say about you Qazz but I feel I cannot enjoy your good qualities if you insult us intentionally or not.

    I still have huge grudges over how some staff members have publicly spoken to me, in ways I totally didn't deserve, and it stains the server, I never received an apology for the times the staff went ham on me in a forum because they disagreed with me, "so you can't understand Heinz? in that case lets go ahead and threaten to ban him if he says one more thing we don't like"

    We cannot get a grip of the community so lets shoot them all down and make martyrs out of them! big big fails all round!

    I am still sick to my stomach over some of the things said previously and despite complaints with evidence, not enough has changed in the last 12 months.

    It is too late for an apology or reconciliation regarding my own incidents, but that does not quell my desire to see this thing fixed to prevent further harm to players, players old and new, young or old.

    If you don't have children of your own, then why are you in a position where you are pretending to act like parents? albeit horrid parents. Just wait until you have children of your own and you will realize you cannot cope, and using the same tactics i describe will alienate your kids and make them hate you as parents with problematic children.
    And instead of being able to reason with the child, you will get angry and hit them because your lack of reason or empathy is your own weakness that you take out on others.

    Just briefly as so many keep bringing up Versh, in my experience Versh does make a funny sarcastic comment, but then if you wait for it, he usually follows it up with a comprehensive and knowledgeable bit of info that explains the concerns, unless he feels he is repeating himself to a brick wall. And i have seen Versh work very hard, i think he could possibly the one who has given the most and taken the least, and just FYI thats why i like and respect him. I challenge anyone else to be here as long as he has, have a job and a family life, and yet still juggle all of that and find time to put in the effort here, I applaud him for that, he is brilliant. We have plenty of staff members who are similar or deserve the same kind of respect, but thats not a blanket statement for the entire staff.....

    If the complaints procedure worked we would see demotions, reprimands, and public apologies imho.

    But just to reiterate I make these types of posts to prevent one or 2 bad apples from spoiling the barrel.

    Quite frankly I think as someone who knows the server like the back of their hands as you say, has little regard for anyone who doesn't back you up or agree with you. Can you not see the problem? you don't have a staff tag, but you speak like a staff member and have the nerve to tell me things that when boiled down equate to "you are not staff so shut up"

    No offence but you still don't seem to make the connection regarding how the community feels it's feedback is vital, and you see it as superfluous. You speak like only staff can make criticisms or question something if we find it questionable.

    Don't you see how adults can get insulted by attitudes like these?

    This was not a personal bash although it will be taken as one, you are the ones who made it personal by making some members feel worthless.

    I am sad because once upon a time I counted you as one of my friends, maybe I took some things personally when I shouldn't, but despite me telling myself that I am painting you worse than you are in reality, you make posts attacking a players opinion based on their time online. Address the issue and not the symptom and maybe we can get out of this loop.

    continued below
     
    Last edited: February 13, 2016
  11. heinz_gruber

    heinz_gruber

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    I reached the 10000 character limit so broke it into 2.

    Cont.

    You may of worded it badly, but it's not the first time you have expressed a similar opinion and so that is the opinion I assume you stand for. What would you say to someone who's inactivity was caused by the attitudes being described?

    At the time of writing this I see it only as truth, and not as a personal attack. We need to be able to accept truths can sometimes be beyond our grasp to understand without brushing them aside in arrogance just because we don't agree or see the light instantly.

    In short I refuse to be insulted by staff or players publicly over something as silly as free speech because they couldn't handle my opinion without getting angry and losing their minds.

    If i am to play here, the staff need to recognize that if you treat me as an adult i will be an asset, treat me like a child and i will throw my toys out of the pram. It is not i who has a duty to be mature, i am a player, i follow the rules, no problem! but if i went around insulting people i would be dealt with. Yet when i get online i make every effort to make each new member feel welcome, that's what i am interested in. And if ever i say something off color then i demand to be told so that i can improve. Why do some people feel it is acceptable to behave like brats?

    If the complaints procedure worked we wouldn't be here now.
    Enough is enough.

    I have said my bit, if people cannot work the rest out then the server i once knew is gone. And if players want to come to a server where they are not treated as equals then let them know that some people are created more equally than others when they join.

    The reason I came back is because if I gave up entirely then how committed was I in the first place. That can be said for all walks of life, if you quit then you were not serious about making things better than how you found them.

    I have honestly tried to hard to express my opinions without bringing emotion into it or making it personal, but I mention Qazz in name when I feel it was relevant and not to bash but to highlight what i consider to be inconsistency. However as someone who has a bit of humanity I can accept that I may of even crossed a line or two here, but that's your opinion not mine, if i have hurt any feelings then i apologize in advance.

    Have a good weekend
     
  12. Qazz

    Qazz

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    I agree with Arwenden in the sense that community feedback, to an extent, can be beneficial to the quality of the methods used to handle staff duties. What I have been saying that I believe is not okay is when players approach a staff member with an extremely disrespectful attitude, and trying to moderate the moderator, for lack of a better term. Feedback in situations like these is almost crucial however when it's gone about like it has been recently, it causes a rift between the staff and the players. Feedback is beneficial, disrespectful rebuttal is not.

    Anyone is easily able to handle negative feedback, however when constantly met with hostility as I've seen over the past year+, it can become stressful no matter who is in the position. I'm not saying that all players that provide negative feedback are hostile, but I've seen too much of it in public discussions for it to be easily dismissed. I believe that if there were more peaceful approaches as far as feedback was concerned that it would no longer be an issue.

    Firstly, I'm not attacking anybody's opinion. What I'm saying is that in regards to current engagements, the viewpoint of a consistently active player will be more accurate to the situation than that of a player who has not been actively present. I do believe there have been some misunderstandings with what I've said. If it comes across as me sounding like I don't care about the opinions of anyone who isn't on all day every day, then something wasn't clear. Their thoughts and opinions still matter regarding current events, however there are times when their perspective may be skewed because of such.

    If a player has left because of the methods of staff members then it is absolutely imperative that they bring it up with a higher-up, such as Gwenhywar or, if she is unreachable, ImDeity. I don't feel as though a player should feel forced into leaving because of the methods of the server staff, and if they do then that is grounds to voice their concerns in a private discussion. When I say this though, I don't mean that a staff member and a player have had a minor disagreement and now the player is upset about it. I mean if a player feels personally attacked by a staff member. I love this community to death and seeing people leave is never fun, however if it comes to an impasse there isn't much to be done.

    You're right, I have not been publicly dragged through the mud. The reason is not because, as you said, I am under some different set of rules. I am under the same set of rules as everybody else that plays on this server, however my time on this server has been spent with strict observance of the rules. When I do step out of line, albeit it is not often, I do get reprimanded just like everybody else. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. In fact, Seph and Versh are the first to be on me about something that I could be possibly doing wrong, however most of our discussions take place in teamspeak so it's not something that everybody sees. Aside from that, the staff aren't under any less rules than players. They still have to abide by the same set of rules, and if anything it's more important that they do.

    Just a small bit here, a staff member does not deserve demotion for a mishap just as a regular player does not deserve a ban for a minor infraction. It's a double standard. There have been public apologies in the past, I've seen numerous. There have been reprimands I'm sure, but we as players can't see that because the staff, when handling serious matters, always go to the Busy Staff (Locked) channel. It has no subscription power to non-staff so players can't see who's in there unless they happen to look in console when they move channels.

    I don't disregard people with differing thoughts and opinions to mine, I've had many disagreements with my friends on the server, however a disagreement here and there won't stop me from being their friend. If I was outright disregarding anyone with opinions that are different from mine I wouldn't be putting in the time to put my thoughts into these threads as I have time and time again.

    Also, I don't speak like a staff member. I speak like a well informed member of the community that has been here for four and a half years. That being said, my status on the server is entirely irrelevant to the points I'm trying to make. If I was trying to say what you're so hastily assuming and implying I meant, then I wouldn't be speaking on this subject either.

    While no I don't see it as a personal attack for the most part, I wouldn't go as far as to say your post is entirely hard facts. It's an opinion, and your perspective of the situations going on. The same as my post(s), they are opinions and my perspective of the situations.

    As a veteran of the server, Heinz, I actually do believe that it is your duty, as well as every other veteran's duty, to be mature. We have been here so long that we are essentially part of the server's infrastructure at this point, and without the players who have been here through hell and high water we wouldn't have the examples to be set for the new players.

    If you and many others feel this way then maybe a reassessment of the complaints procedure is due. That, however, is a decision for Deity. If he feels that something new is needed I'm sure he would be on top of introducing it.

    ~

    There are a lot of things that have been addressed that are probably overdue, however when it all boils down to it it's not our duty to do something about it.

    Thanks,
    Kali
     
    Last edited: February 13, 2016
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  13. heinz_gruber

    heinz_gruber

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    Please allow me to add some extra context to focus the points which for me are key.

    If a staff member is met with hostility that it makes the job hell for them, then they should certainly not allow that to be vented towards other players of the community which is what i feel has happened, yes it is an opinion but i never make claims that i feel are fantastical, As far as the proof which is in the pudding, the proof is in the complaints i have made previously.

    I feel my meaning has been taken wrong here, i never said punish mods with an iron fist, i really feel lots of them are wonderful as i have repeated constantly.
    And if you want my honest opinion i don't want to see a single staff member forced out or punished or anything.

    I just want to see progress towards the one or 2 names that keep cropping up on threads like these, so that they don't happen again. And that usually starts with an apology on both sides and a dialogue to smooth things over.

    I do not want to blow this out of proportion but we all want to play here and have fun. All i know is if i have made a complaint, as have others, if the same names keep coming up then you just have to look at the common denominator and accept there is a problem somewhere.

    If threads and convos like these didn't keep popping up then i would still be inside a bubble thinking everything was rosey.

    Bon weekend.
     
  14. Mojinax

    Mojinax

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    Again, I think we've found our solution. From Seph's post to Heinz's final post, it's been nothing that cannot and should not be said in conversations.
     
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  15. Driver_X

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    First of all, be careful. If it wasn't clear enough from many other threads like this made in the past, the main reason for these to be locked is that people insist to turn them into personal 1v1 flame wars. If you want these discussions to last longer, and hopefully get somewhere, then stay focused.

    Staff should not be untouchable. We are not demigods, as you can see by how many times staff members say "we are humans too". So if you have a problem with a staff member, don't be afraid, don't step back and quiet down because we are somehow "above you". We are not.
    Have an issue? I'd recommend taking it directly to the involved moderator. Most of the quarries that happen on a daily basis could be solved that way, it is faster, much simpler and also allows us to build the mutual trust and respect that is so necessary in social relations.
    Remember, the same way you'd like staff to address issues respectfully and, most likely, in private, moderators would like to be treated well too. Don't be disrespectful. Don't try to publicly shame a staff member in some attempt to boast yourself. All you are going to achieve is to build a wall between you and staff, just like it would happen if you do that to anyone else. It makes me sad that I felt like it was necessary to write this paragraph. I shouldn't have. This is basic etiquette.

    So you've messaged a moderator and they were rude to you? Don't argue, but don't take it either. Yes, some moderators could be too arrogant or too insecure to accept any form of criticism, after all, we are all humans. What to do? Screenshot it. Screenshot what caused the issue in the first place and also your attempt to approach the involved moderator. If possible, screenshot as much of the previous chat as you can, that helps understanding the context and will only benefit you.
    From now on you know how it works: Forward the screenshots to Gwen, with a brief explanation of what happened and how that moderator's action/rudeness/whatever affected you, preferably.
    I understand, most think this achieves nothing because very little changed in the past years and no one sees any result. I beg to differ. I have reported moderators myself, before and after I became a moderator, and I know that the involved moderators were called out for their actions. Why no big changes were seen then? I don't know, probably these moderators are too deep into their habits to change this easily, or could they believe they are somehow above that? Well, I really don't know, either way, collect evidence, as much as you can, and as detailed as you can, and forward them to Gwen. One could brush off a couple of sporadic complaints, but if our playerbase organizes itself and keep forwarding beefy, say, weekly reports, then it would reach a point where the issue just cannot be ignored and maybe more drastic and required actions could be taken.

    Remember, moderators are here to enforce the server's rules, some may have different approaches or interpretations of them, but staff should always be treated with respect. Fronting a moderator head on will achieve nothing but to further disconnect our players from staff.

    Dang, I didn't mean to write a long post but, on a side note, for any player that wants to be a moderator, mimicking a mod's behavior doesn't help. Helping other players, respectfully informing them when something they do is wrong and being an overall nice player is what I picture as mod worthy actions. Yelling at newbies to "get out of /h", giving out "formal warnings" to other players as if you were in position to ban them and acting bossy are a good sign that you don't understand what it is to be a moderator (and you are probably making a fool of yourself in front of your friends), don't do it.

    I know no one asked my opinion on this but, after all the flames and barbs shared, I feel like a compliment to praise worthy behavior would be well placed. So I'd like to say that, as of now, from all players that I see as interested in being a moderator, @CiljaW might be the only player I could safely trust as worthy of the position. I hope that I can see in the next months more players as patient, educated and respectful as she is, players who I could undoubtedly agree to have as teammates in staff.

    Tanckz a bunch,
    Your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man
     
    Last edited: February 13, 2016
    tOPIV, legoazurp, CiljaW and 4 others like this.
  16. eltono999

    eltono999

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    I never said you had to leave, and I hated high school too, but when I was there I learned to deal with different people in different ways, as I did here. Don't like someone? Don't play with them or join their TS channel. Simple as that. You can play on the server and still have a good time without forcing yourself into any pseudo-drama. Also I didn't specifically say staff either. I had numerous fights with pretty much every mod an admin, mostly because I was a little **** of a kid at the time (sorry about that one everyone, really embarrassing in hindsight). If you don't agree with staff, that's cool, and in fact conversations like it are cool and great and probably welcomed, but when people start complaining about the same things that are always complained about (hence why I didn't read the thread, more on that later), it drives the point away from any legitimate arguments you may of had in the first place. If you think a mod made a bad choice, talk to someone, but don't flame. You think someone's getting fair treatment? Well, you're wrong, but if that's how you feel talk about that too. There's no harm in a conversation, but it's probably better put through a PM to the individual(s) or whoever you see fit, not as yet another complaints thread on the forums.

    Also like I said, I didn't read the thread because this is literally more of the same. It's nothing to do with respect, I'm just offering my 2 cents. I'm by no means an active player (I've probably held the most debt over 4 or 5 maps than any other player due to inactivity), so the actual people and complaints mean little to me because I won't even know, but the argument is always the same. The great ImDeity Clique War. It never ends. But seriously, it's nothing that will effect you if you simply don't let it.
    I also haven't read any posts after my first except the one I'm replying to, so if I've missed any great detail that's probably why.

    C'mon guys, this server has gone on for over 5 years now, and we still haven't learned to play nicely?
    I bet it's because I never got mod ;)
     
  17. smcallah

    smcallah

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    There is a mod application thread, that is where pretty much all of the mods came from. Opinions were asked by ImDeity each time he was picking new people from the list of applicants. Then he picked who he wanted after weighing words from others. So it's not all about who you know. Heck, Qazz lived across the street from me, literally, and isn't a mod so far.

    I was not friends with anyone on the server before I became a mod. I kept to myself mostly and helped people and decided to apply one day. Then I continued to do my mod job and play and now I'm an admin, for almost 4 years, which I'll admit is from being friends with ImDeity, not because of an application. But admin isn't exactly a position just given out lightly.

    I didn't know any of the people that became mods before they were accepted and before I said it looked like they'd make a good mod except for one person.

    Mods don't always get along either, so we all know. Nor are they always honest, but those ones are gone.

    Also, I'm pretty inactive and don't think my opinion matters on things that I don't know about. But I can give an opinion anyway.
     
    tOPIV, Gwenhywar, CiljaW and 6 others like this.
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