Great Constuctions

Your plots in the new creative world just launched in the last few months were deleted? I have no idea what happened there if that's the case, perhaps someone in the know can comment. But there are other plots that have been on there since the beginning that aren't gone.

Your personal decision though has no bearing on the direction of the class system however. I'm not sure why you think it would. Not everyone has boycotted it, not everyone is the same as you.

I thought I had said in an earlier post in the thread that logs from logblock don't last that long. So if you're building something over a month, the logs are going to be long gone.

Creative is tied into craftsman class because it is a place in which anyone can freely build to the best of their abilities without limitation. And it is the only way that we believe that we can fairly judge a multi-level class system promotion. As all plots are the same size and all blocks are available even to the poorest craftsman.

And you bring up "sourcing materials" as another player has already. If "sourcing" were only mining what you build with, I would 100% agree with you. But that's not at all what it is. It's also buying from mall shops or DeityShop or having someone collect it all for you. Do you consider all of those things "sourcing?" Then why not consider creative inventory also a "sourcing" point? Yes, I know, YOU have boycotted it. But most others have not. And when ImDeity does release the class upgrades shortly, many people will be building there.

Please don't assume what I would say, because I would not say that at all. We appreciate donators and don't consider their special abilities in this at all. That would be like saying that a donator shouldn't be able to have a shop as a merchant because it's easier for them to gather resources with fly and asc/desc or that they shouldn't be able to start a town because they get dei for donating.

I will be blunt as well. The way things are is the way things are.

 

How is it not fair, exactly? Because YOU choose, PERSONALLY, not to go on the Creative world anymore? You didn't really explain when your plots were deleted as I asked, so it's unfair of you to throw that at me with no explanation when I have given a ton of explanation. Were they even "Great Constructions" since you didn't know it was a class requirement at the time?

Should someone who chooses the Merchant class but then boycotts the mining world say it's unfair they can't upgrade their class because they have no resources to sell in a shop?

Should someone who chooses to be Nobility say it's unfair that they can't upgrade their class because they don't want to be an assistant or mayor in a town?

 

It takes 5 days to even choose the level 1 class. Then you have to build on creative and be promoted to the right level that counts towards the class upgrade. That's going to take a bit longer than a week to accomplish.

And there have been people waiting to upgrade for months and months. If they can get to level 2 of the Craftsman class in 1 week because they put the time in since they've waited so long, then more power to them.

But a new player to the server or a person that switches to Craftsman is not ranking up in a week.

Also, I want to add a bit about us not being able to use logblock to prove that a build belongs to someone on main:

Logblock takes a TON of storage space. If you don't know what it does, it keeps track of every block placed, every block destroyed, every item put in a chest, and every item taken out of a chest with the exact coordinates of where this happened and the exact time and day it happened. Nonstop. At the most we have 2 weeks of logblock data. We cannot store logblock data for longer or forever and still log everything else that happens on the server and have SSD space for the all of the world maps and daily backups of those worlds.

So having said that, say we said, "you can build your great construction on main to count towards your class upgrade and it has to be done from start to finish in 2 weeks from the very moment you start working on it. You need to make sure you notify us before the 2 weeks is up though so we can be ready to judge it before the logblock logs disappear. And every block must be placed by you in the build and show up in logblock or the build is disqualified."

Would that be fair to people that only play on weekends or not often that still want to be craftsmen? Would that be fair to people if we missed getting to it by just a few hours of the end of the 2 weeks and some of the logblock data was missing? Would it be fair to have to disqualify the whole thing because we can't prove someone built the entire thing themselves?

In the creative world, your build might get "disqualified" from a rank up or for your class upgrade, but you can still improve upon the SAME build because we know you're the only one that worked on it the entire time it was there.

In the main world, if we disqualify your build, you'd have to start an entirely new build and have it done within 2 weeks again. Hardly seems worth it, right?

There is unfortunately no fair way to achieve the "Great Construction" class upgrade on the main world. We could try to mark off an area and only allow one person to build in that area, it's not beyond our ability, but it would require someone to ask for an area and then someone designated in staff to go and mark that area for the person. It can't be automated, because we don't want the main world flooded with protected plots that only belong to one person that we have to clean up all the time. A lot of them being people who play for a week or two, get the Craftsman level 1 upgrade, claim an area and then don't build anything and leave it for us to find later.

That's why the easiest way to automate it was to create a world where this was the intention. An area to claim that is just for building by that one person. A world that can expand and expand with plots because we don't take up CPU cycles by logblocking everything, having NoCheat running, and anti x-ray running.

If you don't like building in "creative mode" with all those blocks available, you do have the option of not flying, and you can choose to only use blocks you would have sourced in the main world. No one is forcing you use every block or tons of diamond blocks in a build.

If you just don't want to build on the DeityCreative world, then you just won't level up the Craftsman class, because that's a requirement. The other classes have requirements as well. Some merchants have never even owned a shop and won't be able to level up without that. I guess they should complain just as much as well. There might be some nobility that weren't made an assistant in the town they joined, so they can't add people to a town. They better start complaining too.

 

Glitches happen. How can we do anything about that? It didn't happen to everyone. You've made a personal decision because of it that affects your leveling up. How does your specific situation affect everyone else?

I thought you were saying that someone intentionally deleted your plots.

People can still make builds on main. What about the class upgrade requirements stops that? You're reading way too much into it. I've already explained the reasoning that they have to be done on the creative world. None of that stops people from building what they want to on main.

And nothing is stopping that...

How exactly would we be able to know that you built them all? And not just you, that applies to anyone. Old builds are old builds. I get the frustration about the class upgrades. I'll never experience them for what they are because I'm an admin. I had a shop 2 maps ago and sold enough to upgrade my class. Then the map and economy reset. Happened to a lot of merchants. Same thing with nobility adding people to towns. No one gets past credit for that from 1 or 2 main worlds ago.

While that may seem logical, we have a lot of people who have donated after only being on the server for a week that break rules and been banned. Basically kids using their parents' money to donate and not caring that they lost $25 - $200 by being banned. I'd rather not have the higher class perks in those people's hands. However, perhaps Deity can be convinced to skip the requirements for level 2 for donators that have met all the other requirements, (post count, hours in game, etc.) At least brand new players that donate won't meet the requirements. I'll suggest that to him.

I can easily make anyone "gamemode 0" in DeityCreative and give them a limited set of items. But I still don't see what's different about it if you don't fly and limit yourself to a few materials, as far as building something goes. Perhaps there is something I'm not getting...?

I still don't see what difference that makes. Craftsmen don't have to sell items in a shop or add people to a town either. What does one class requirement have to do with the other? They're different classes, so they have different class specific requirements.


Would it be better to make all classes have the same requirements to level up? That way, it is totally fair and everyone has to do the same things.

 

I don't have a problem if a craftsman's great construction is requested to be copied and put into protected town plots on the main world. As long as that build didn't have any chests or an abundance of rare on the main world blocks. (which I would delete chests and do a count of rare blocks before copying it.)

I think that problem with redstone value would still exists even with great builds, because it will still cost money to place redstone. It's value will perhaps go up a little as redstone block placement should be a perk of the next craftsman level.

Thank you.

 

I would like to trust the community, but we had several veteran players that found bugs that would let them duplicate items over and over. People that had been on the server for well over a year. Knowing that our logblock only goes for 2 weeks is not an exploit or a hack.

I already covered that in a previous post. Too many people will be doing this to have a mod or admin do it by hand. It has to be automated. And automation would lead to too much wild area being claimed for builds by new players not wanting to go far from a portal and then leaving the claimed area when they don't come back to play again.

There is no such thing as a separate logblock file. Logblock works as described for the entire world on which it is run.

 

I'm not sure how reading the logblock files that way solves it. We'd have to compare their logblock data to EVERY other player's logblock data to make sure they didn't overlap in the build coords.

And if we knew the coords the person was building at in the first place, the point would be moot as we'd likely have a claimed spot where only that player was building. Marking an area to get coords for logblock data would be just as time consuming as marking an area for a person to be the only one allowed to build there. Perhaps I should have said that in my first reply. And in the end, that doesn't solve anything about people who already thought they built a great construction on the main world.

Our problem is already solved with a fully automated plot system in DeityCreative. Many people know that fact and are working on their constructions already. And like I said, I'll move any craftsman's approved great construction to the main world so that it can exist there for people to see and use outside of creative world.

 

No flood gates would be open if I'm the one looking over the builds for moving.

I would count the blocks so I would know how many are there and if it is valid to move without much concern about the amount of rare blocks in there. I would 1) ask the builder to change the blocks 2) change the blocks to something else myself if they want 3) or charge them DeityShop rates for DeityShop items or average mall shop prices for others for the blocks used that they want to move. The only disallowed blocks would be unobtainable that even DeityShop doesn't have, chests (because there might be something in them and I'm not going to check inside all of them in a build), gold ore/blocks, and lava.

I would only charge for the rare blocks used if the craftsman wants those moved with it. But from the complaints above about creative, it doesn't sound like I have to worry about craftsman wanting to build with any rare blocks, right?


Any easily gathered items (dirt, sand, stone, gravel, clay, wood) I wouldn't charge for.

Nobody? I'm not going to reply to hyperbole. Lack of people saying something does not mean they are submissive and don't really accept it, nor does it mean the opposite.

Last I knew, I am an admin that can set the policy of what it costs. If you don't have money on the main world for really rare items, I don't suspect you'll have them in a build on main. Would you build with rare materials just because they're unlimited in creative? If you build something that you would build with the same materials on the main world that aren't rare, I'd move it for free if your build is approved for your class upgrade. Simple as that. If you want to add rare items to it that you already have on main after it is moved, then you can do that. I thought that would be the logical conclusion to what I said.

And I could have sworn that this change for the class upgrade JUST HAPPENED, so it doesn't matter what you read in a guide or wiki that hasn't been updated since then. Yes, if you want a hill in your build, you'll have to build it. That's what happens when things change, methods change.

You shouldn't call the other players "things." Anyway, someone in creative can still choose to build with only basic materials. Why do I have to keep repeating that? You don't have to use rare materials just because they're there. We all know that, right? I'm more impressed with a build out of basic pieces than anything built with tons of rare blocks. Who would be impressed by that?