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No Gold? I don't get it.

Discussion in 'Suggestions / Ideas' started by TheRealForte, June 24, 2012.

?

Do you think my ideas should be done instead of this massive Ban?

  1. Yes

    19 vote(s)
    40.4%
  2. No

    27 vote(s)
    57.4%
  3. I have an idea! (Post your idea in the comment section below)

    1 vote(s)
    2.1%
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  1. smcallah

    smcallah

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    Yes, and we had the same thing with gold. The more you sold above 50 the less they were worth. But this still doesn't stop the problem. People would still just sell 50 per day, and not sell anymore. That is what most people did, and that is why there is just a flat limit of 50 now. Because not many people were selling over 50 since they were storing them to skirt taxes anyway.
     
  2. Lord__Xemnas

    Lord__Xemnas

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    If I'm correct about what jacob is saying, that if you were to take off the ability to de-construct gold blocks into ignots then it wouldn't be able to have the dei amount that the ignots have. It would basically be making it into something that doesn't have the value of it's previous form. In short 1 gold ignot=25 dei but 1 gold block doesn't add up to 225.
    Therefore, the people that were hoarding the gold by having stacks of gold blocks would come to have something useless (money wise) since they can't reform them back to ignots.

    If taking the de-construction ability out for it is possible, we could have where the ignots are automatically taken but you can make gold blocks from the portal page.

    Example: If I had 29 gold ignots in my DeityVault, there could be an option to make 1-3 gold blocks and the remaining amount would stay in the Vault.

    With this opition, you wouldn't have to worry about people hoarding the gold for monetary purposes because of 1) All ignots are automatically taken to the DeityVault and 2) the gold blocks being irreversable would be of little value (less than 1 ignot in price). Just an option.
     
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  3. strydier

    strydier

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    Dude. You make me want to punch homeless babies. You are missing the entire point of my post. You put that stupid poll up asking if people liked your ideas instead of the current fix. You had no ideas. You only mentioned a message in the starter quest. What do the logs to catch what is being moved out of a chest have to do with people moving their gold around? If I had 12 stacks of gold and I moved it from one chest to another I would get banned. It's automatic. You file an appeal. The admins investigate and you get unbanned. Thats how this works. This is whats its comes down to because too many idiots broke the rules and things had to be changed.

    Again. Your poll and posts aren't contributing anything but the idea of putting more code into a message to say how much gold is worth when you are only supposed to sell it in one place. Most of your replies tell me you partially read or havent read most of the rules and signs at spawn, on the wiki and on the forums and that you don't understand how economics work. SMC is a better man than me.
     
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  4. stewiepro777

    stewiepro777

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    First glowstone was removed, now gold blocks. Now just wait for people to start hoarding their wealth in diamonds or wool and ban those blocks too.

    The point is, you will never stop ppl getting richer than others. I know many people who simply enjoyed collecting money, this was their way of playing the game. With those huge taxes, illegal blocks, and other pointless updates you simply make the game more boring.

    I hope that the dev team knows what its doing.
     
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  5. thejacoborg

    thejacoborg

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    Huge taxes? Where did you get that idea? Player taxes are not up atm, so the server only taxes towns... Towns have taxes, but the maximum is 100dei (and only one town has it this high). Voting gets you 200 to 400 dei, so paying town taxes should be no problem....
     
  6. CTTheSchism

    CTTheSchism

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    Is there ever a time that you don't want to punch homeless babies? Haha :p

    But, in all seriousness, I get where you're coming from, forte, but you'll have to wait. Unfortunately, because of these people who hoard gold (Yes I'm one of them), you'll have to wait for a while before you can use gold blocks to build.

    What Deity could do is set a date whereby people would have to have deposited all of their gold blocks in to their vault. Say... a month from now. After this time, players would be unable to transfer gold blocks to their vault and would be available for purchase from the server store. I think this would solve the issue without too many complaints.
     
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  7. Lord__Xemnas

    Lord__Xemnas

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    No need to be rude about it though strydier, if you didn't mean to be that's fine but that's how it looks. The whole thing with the gold is unfortunate that people hoarded all of that and abused the system and from what I can tell, he just wanted to know why because the people who do use gold as a build material now can't use it.

    I think, if it's possible to be done, mine and jacob's idea would benefit both sides. Having gold blocks irreversable so hoarding it would make you lose money, but keep to where it's able to be used as a material.

    But honestly, you need to be better with words because you just look arrogent with that last post. So he didn't have an immeadiate solution for it, that doesn't give you the right to bash him for it by stating over and over about how he doesn't have one. Just think about how you're saying things before clicking the post button.
     
  8. vanZeben

    vanZeben

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    Ahh i see what you are saying, but then again this doesnt account for anyone who has over 9 gold ingots, which i would think be pretty common. As when you have 9 ingots typically (at least in my case) you'll turn it into a block in order to conserver space. Also the Gold ore that is picked up from the ground will automatically be turned into the vault as it would be in "ingot" for. So this would only apply for people who have pre-existing blocks.

    So your saying, you can transfer all your gold manually for a month and then you cant do it anymore? Correct me if im wrong, but we gave a manual option to turn your gold into dei and you can see how many people are hoarding atm. Also this wouldn't really account for future gold transactions. We plan to have this vault system at least as far foreseeable as possible atm. The item may not stay at gold (Depending on what minecraft does with emeralds), however for the moment this is how it is going to stay. It solves all but one problem, and that problem i dont see as too much an issue.



    Also strydiers post was directly referring to the poll on the page entitled "Do you think my idea should be done instead of this massive ban" and the OP didnt even have a suggestion or idea.
     
  9. Lord__Xemnas

    Lord__Xemnas

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    I don't believe I'm understanding what the first part means, that:
    With what we have now (if what I'm thinking is correct) that any gold block/ingot/ore is automatically transfered to the DeityVault when "detected", right?
    If so, what I'm saying is having on the gold transfer portal page is an option to transfer 9 gold ingots from the Vault into 1 gold block in-game, but having the ability to reverse the process from block=ignot removed.

    With this, we can have the people who use gold as a building material (like Forte) able to only use it as the block, as it cannot be turned back into ingots.

    Hopefully, with your amazing coding skills (yeah that was a suck up moment) you would be able to do that, making it a win/win for pretty much everyone.

    Please tell me if I'm missing something with this though.
     
  10. CTTheSchism

    CTTheSchism

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    Nah, what I'm saying is only gold blocks become non-transferable after a month. After this, the gold blocks can be bought from a server shop for 50 dei or whatever you set it to. At this point, the crafting recipe of converting gold blocks to gold ingots should be removed so that the blocks themselves are worth only the store price after the 1 month is up.

    Also, if you give people the option to transfer the gold blocks for a month, people will do it in this situation, considering that after the month is up, they will be a worth a lot less than if they had transferred the gold before hand.

    Now the issue arises where people would buy these gold blocks after the time limit is up and hoard them, knowing that they could sell them to players later on. Unfortunately, this issue would exist with all items sold from a server store. Because of this, I don't think that server shops are the way to go. What can be implemented is an inconsistent method of obtaining items that would otherwise be sold from the server shop. Gold blocks, for example, may be obtained as a rare monster drop, glowstone may be obtained from the upcoming nether update and so on. Now that players have no server price to go by, the price would fluctuate nicely, making the items dangerous to hoard.

    Now, at this point, there should be no items whatsoever that have a server price for players to go by. If this is the case, then hoarding items becomes dangerous and less of a wide-spread issue as it is now.
     
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  11. Leviathan_Ziz

    Leviathan_Ziz

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    Btw: The amount of people using gold blocks as decoration is small, it's basicly using 225g building blocks, and not many people will use one more. Adding to that, is that gold, just as glowstone, obsidian and diamond blocks is not that pretty if used to much, however for gold, using a few blocks already starts to count in the thousands of dei's, 99% of the players don't have over 10k, or over 10k to spend on any project.

    The plugin eliminates ANY illegal gold selling/buying.
     
  12. eltono999

    eltono999

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    I just love this whole idea. Building with gold blocks is something i love to do. They add a nice accent to whatever you're building, like adding glowstone instead of torches. Using the right amount just looks nice, y'know? Now, i haven't exactly been the richest guy since the reset, but i got by. One thing i never really had the money for was to use the gold i had for construction, i had to make the money. Now with this, we have a great oppertunity to have a new nice building material. I hate that we still don't have glowstone, but adding gold blocks will make me very happy. But enough of that, here are some ideas of how to do this.

    Xemnas, i love that idea. Being able to convert the ingots from your vault into gold blocks. But i can see where it would get annoying. Having to be online in game and on the portal to convert them would get a little tedious, especially when you just want the blocks now and you need a lot. The other idea i can think of is having gold blocks in the shop, but of course disable them turning back into ingots.

    As with powered rails, golden apples or whatever being in the gold shop, add gold blocks too. Having them at a set price at the shop would both keep a set price in the economy for when the odd player decides to sell them in /trade for some unknown reason. These blocks would just be used as building matrerial, having no extra resell value, so could be sold for a reasonable price a stack. But seeing as it is still golden blocks, it would of course be more than, say, a stack of wood. But yeah, theres my rough idea..
     
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  13. CTTheSchism

    CTTheSchism

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    Granted, not many people use gold for building, but it's the principle of restricting creativity that I don't like.
    If Deity wishes to allow more items to be bought and sold from server stores, then unfortunately, these items too would have to be restricted, as gold is now, to prevent hoarding, unless some other solution is thought up.

    <Tangent>
    Off the top of my head, I can think of a plugin that could be made to automatically fluctuate server store prices based on the amount of an item bought in the past 24 hours. Doing this even brings investors in to the picture. Someone may buy stacks of gold blocks from the server store, predicting that demand would go up and could reap massive profits from this. I'm sure there are numerous ways that this could be exploited, but these would be solved as safeguards are suggested and the idea is refined.
    </Tangent>

    Anyway, the point is that I don't like the idea of restricting creativity, so I'd really like to see an alternate solution to this.

    See, this is what we can't have, unfortunately. When glowstone was in the server, it had a set store price of 50 dei/block. Now, if gold wasn't in the picture then, players would have bought copious amounts of glowstone and then sold them later, knowing that they could easily sell for 49 dei per (One dei under the server price.) Players looking to buy glowstone would rarely go to the server store because they know they could get a better deal from a glowstone hoarder.
     
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  14. strydier

    strydier

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    Had you or Jacoberg made this thread and offered these legit ideas to fix the current issue I wouldve said good job or liked the post. Instead we had someone make a poll about liking his "Ideas" more than the bans and offering only a message stating what the set price is that never changes. He also doesn't read the signs or pay attention to other threads and posts and why all this is necessary. He then quotes my posts and misunderstands everything I say. Next time if someone wants to post about things they don't understand then they need to ask questions instead of making a worthless poll and making suggestions that do not help.

    Arrogant? No I'm far from arrogant but I'm definitely an @$$#0!$. I have a low tolerance for threads like this. As long as people continue to complain about things without offering viable solutions I'll continue to flame their posts down until they either stop or I get banned from the forums
     
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  15. smcallah

    smcallah

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    I don't see people hoarding items being sold BY a server shop as being an issue. Because they cannot sell them TO the server for a fixed price. They can hope to sell the items to other players for a similar price. But most players will expect a discount, especially if someone is trying to sell a stack of something bought from the server shop. Or else, they'll just go buy from the server shop, which is less of a hassle. Gold was guaranteed a sell price. With any other item, there is no guarantee at all. Plus, the more of these items that someone puts into the world, the less they would be worth potentially, since there is no set "trading" price.

    And again, it comes down to the point that this doesn't add money to the economy. That is the concern. Money moving around in the economy because people are trading normal items with each other is what we want to happen.

    If someone chooses to put all of their money into an item, they have no guarantee that it will sell for as much as they paid for it, it's a form of gambling. And good luck to them.
     
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  16. jdog1766

    jdog1766

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    As a solution for the "Oh my god!! I have to use gold for my creativity in building", maybe just maybe, vanZeben or Imdeity could maybe invest some time into making a mod, or just go into the bin or something(i dont know how you would do it) and making all players unable to break up gold blocks into 9 ingots. This would allow players to use it as building materials, and not worry about people storing their money in the blocks. Now you may say, "Well you could just buy lots and lots of gold blocks and use them as currency", but to prevent that from happening, i can see you making it so they cost 225(the price of 9 ingots) to buy, and yet you can only sell them back for say 25 dei(one ingot). This would force players to use them as intended; as a building material. Just my two cents.
    ~jdog
    ps: please consider this!!
     
  17. Lord__Xemnas

    Lord__Xemnas

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    One way to avoid this "annoyance" is to have the same set-up/code that is for the beta auctions (where you'd type /auction) except with this maybe /gold or /goldclaim ? Just an idea for it.

    Listen, I'm not trying to be a jerk with you but saying stuff like that he doesn't read the signs or pay attention to threads is being rude/mean/arrogant. Let me first mention that there were no threads questioning the new gold system that i saw but Forte was simply being curious and to be honest I had the same thoughts. Maybe he didn't have a solution to come up with at the moment and wanted to see what others thought or had to say about it. You can't/shouldn't be so rude to players because they don't come up with an idea/solution as quick as others though, it's just wrong.

    If I offeneded you by saying you were arrogent then I'm sorry but come on, if you have a "low tolerance for threads like this" and feel that they are "complaining about things without offering viable solutions" then sir you need to step back from the computer and breath because if you can't controll yourself from responding, or at least think of a way to say it courteously. Also, by saying you'll "continue to flame their posts down until they either stop or I get banned from the forums" is a problem for you then. People are allowed to have questions, and you in no way have the right to "flame their posts down until they stop"...honestly if this is how you act towards everyone with a question that you may find obvious then I DO believe you should be banned from the forum, as that is no way to represent ImDeity Kingdoms.

    If you meant all that some other way then let me know because I don't want to take what you said differently than what you meant.

    Oh, and I'm pretty sure doing this
    is bypassing the filter, which last time I checked the rules, bypassing the chat filter is a server offense. Since you want to stay with rules and everything, Watch the language .
     
  18. strydier

    strydier

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    It's not being rude when people repeatedly make statements, threads, or posts about something without getting all or even most of the information. The information that is readily available on the forums and on the wiki. I sat back and didnt comment before as I watched all the drama with the lack of mcmmo posts and chat snowball into Admins not keeping their word and then people posting threads about quiting the server because they believe its going down hill. I'm not sitting back anymore and waiting for a thread like this to start even more complaints about how this plug in doesnt work or this sucks and it rolls into "why are the admins working on this instead of something useful" then "Work on mcmmo and not this crap". You can say it wont happen but its happened on most complaint threads about plug ins.

    Where did you read in Fortes inital post that he was being curious or asking a question? Better yet why are you taking my comments and combining them into saying something else? Did you actually read my post or only bits and pieces? I did not say I'm flaming people asking questions yet you said

    "People are allowed to have questions, and you in no way have the right to "flame their posts down until they stop"..."

    What I said was:

    "As long as people continue to complain about things without offering viable solutions I'll continue to flame their posts down until they either stop.."

    Maybe you should scroll up and read my posts again.
     
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  19. Bren_WOLF_Man

    Bren_WOLF_Man

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    OMG we might as well just stop this thread we all know where this is going so just get along
    with what Diety says and lets all be happy oh and what's the point of gold blocks
    you might as well just sell it then put it in your house for display when somebody is
    just going to come up and see for like 1 second it's not like the person is going
    to send you dei for seeing a gold block.
     
  20. Novamike

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    I would like to share my views and suggestions on the gold vault implementation.

    The building aspect,
    Agreed that the gold block is not the most beautiful block when used in abundance, it is simply stunning when used in the correct way. With default textures it has a certain glow that no other block resembles and it is great for detailing. Even though it is only one out of the many different blocks, it restricts creativity in what is primarily a building game. In my opinion this should be avoided at all costs.

    The economy aspect,
    At the moment we have a virtual currency called dei. This currency is injected into the game by voting, selling gold or completing quests. On the other hand there are very few sinks for individual players to remove this money from the economy. Town tax is the biggest sink of the currency but this is not available to individual players. Those players only lose small amounts of money by using /t spawn, signing up for events, etc. This unbalance causes high inflation because there is more (potential) currency fed into the economy than there is currency leaving. I have not been playing on Imdiety long enough to know the original idea behind the currency so this part will be a bit speculative. I believe the main reasons are to emulate “the gold standard” (that is somewhat valid in current real life economics) as well as give players the opportunity to go out and acquire wealth with labor (mining).

    By basing the virtual currency on a rare attainable item (gold) you have some power to control the value of the gold in the current market, only this was never done. If the “gold standard” was applied correctly, the price of gold at pennybags would fluctuate according to the current supply of gold. This brings along other unwanted problems: players are no longer certain that their hard labor will pay off and the coding for this is probably too complicated for what it’s worth.

    My problem with the current implementation of the gold vault is that you are turning gold into a second virtual currency. So now we have two virtual currencies where one of them is sort of based on the other one. From an economic standpoint this makes no sense at all. It only makes sense from an administrative point of view: very good protection for dupe glitch.

    This leads me to my suggestion for the solution to all of these problems. Remove the connection between gold ingots and dei. In most other games you acquire wealth by doing jobs/quests for npc’s or people. Levi and Gwen mentioned that there will be a lot of new quests soon with the new spawn and hopefully some daily repeatable ones. This is a great opportunity to make this the prime source of income. Players get a varied experience, they have to do some labor and they are incentivized to spend more time in the central spawn. Most games use large purchases of luxury/cosmetic items to sink large amounts of currency out of the server. Chests shops should be a logical start with luxury items for high prices. The second thing I could think of would be temporary (x amount of days) titles or maybe a small speedboost when running, this is comparable to most MMO’s that sell mounts, skins and titles at very high prices to control the currency of their game.

    This way you have direct control over the value of your currency because you can easily change the prices of the quests and chestshops. If gold would be removed from the currency standard role, it would become easier for the admins to check the total amount of currency in rotation. Combine this with an algorithm to base shop prices on this total amount of currency and the economy can become self sustainable with little to no admin regulation needed. A weekly update on the forums of the total amount of currency in rotation and current shop prices is a great incentive for all the entrepreneurs to think of interesting business strategies.

    Apologies for the wall of text, but I feel more constructive criticism is needed on this subject because there are some inherent flaws that need to be addressed.

    -Cheers
     
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