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Player based council on server development

Discussion in 'Suggestions / Ideas' started by Venithar, February 2, 2013.

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  1. lilgrubs

    lilgrubs

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    This is the Imdeity I love, the Imdeity that reaches out to the player; you represent the server very well and I'm happy that we have an amazing staff that will actually communicate and solve the problems. On a side note Congrats on Head Mod!

    EDIT (after reading Gwen's post again :D): On the "just leave" part I wasn't just talking about Staff, actually I haven't seen any staff members do that, but it is the average veteran or player that did such.
     
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  2. KILL3RTACO

    KILL3RTACO

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    Being a programmer myself, I have my own take on this...

    This council isn't needed. We have a suggestion forum. It would basically turn into a group of people who just relay information to a higher authority, like ImDeity, where all that's needed is a post on that forum. It's basically giving people a special title even though everyone else can do it. If you have a question, ask it. If you have a suggestion, mention it. It isn't that hard. There should be no need to be afraid of suggesting something, It's a simple question. I tend to respond with alot of input when it comes with anything about developing. And I'm tending to look at the suggestion forum a little more now.

    I don't see it as completely useless, but it isn't necessarily needed. If you have an idea, just tell us.
     
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  3. Arwenden

    Arwenden

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    Sir, I stand totally corrected. It is true, we used to fight for one in Holland as well. Nothing remained of it though. And actually the Americans used a manuscript from the Dutch Republic to use it for a free state, as in the declaration of independence. (Do not know if it was exactly used for that document though).

    As to replying to this thread, Gwenhywar covered most of it. (When does she not? :cool:)
     
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  4. mbonachea

    mbonachea

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    This is all I wanted -- to be told what is happening. Something like this could and should be done on a regular basis. Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to me.

    On another hand, this idea isn't necessarily needed. People just need to speak up and say what they want, but, as lilgrubs elequently stated, people are in fear of saying anything. Personally, I have the audacity to say bold things to the wrong people, and though this might be a bad quality, everyone should feel as if their voice matters. A council would fill this need, but I think that it will be kinda pointless as it will never be recognized by the server.

    Again, thank you Gwen for taking the time to do some investigating and respond.[/quote]
     
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  5. Venithar

    Venithar

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    Being a programmer as well (though limited in Java)... I should just point this out...

    Yes there is a suggestion forum, and anyone can make a suggestion; however, does that suggestion have the backing of more then 1 or a handful of players? Will you as a developer look at the suggestion and say "oh, that would be easy to do" and start work on it or would you look at the suggestion objectively and get input from other people and decide whether it is a suggestion that more then a small group would like? A lot of players do not spend their time going through the forums to agree or disagree with suggestions. As I had pointed out in one of my posts, some game companies have started using polls for players to vote on what the next focus of development will be. They give the players a list of a few items and allow them to decide. What I am saying is that players see things differently from how staff/developers see things. In some cases, such as mbonachea's list, his opinion on what order things are needed is vastly different from mine. As an example, he has left out 2 major things, classes and shops, yet he lists things which may not be of interest to a larger portion of the community, i.e. deity games (I am not saying they aren't fun, I am saying the have no long term benefit and are more a "fad" item).
     
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  6. KILL3RTACO

    KILL3RTACO

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    Well, that depends whether the suggestion is useful and whether my mod application as programmer is accepted or not.


    Yeah, but we're not a game company. And that isn't really how our developing process works. It's more like, if something is suggested, and we like it or see it as useful, then maybe we will add it. Although we may use your previously stated process for other things. For instance quest ideas.

    I agree, but that doesn't mean we need a whole other team to handle it.
     
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  7. Venithar

    Venithar

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    I'll give you a little background in regards to this. I was a Sysop (admin for those that don't know that term) for a player run game for 7 years. My focus was events development. When ideas were brought to me, I would ask the community to give input using a polling bot. What this did was gave me the overall interest of the idea within the community. It saved time and effort for the developers as we didn't put priority to items that the community wasn't looking for. As a developer or an admin, you may have different opinions on what to do then what the community actually wants. I understand that you may not like the idea of players having any say in what gets done, but over the long term, this is actually better then picking things the community as a large could care less about to develop.
     
  8. prwraith

    prwraith

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    On a side note, if there was a recognized venue for coders to enter through you may get more developers.

    And if the community had weigh in, on what they would like to see. It would give potential coders direction to help. Neither of which is particularly hard. Takes all of what, 30 seconds to create a new forum on a modern board?
     
  9. KILL3RTACO

    KILL3RTACO

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    Admins aren't the only one with the permission to start a poll. We could use this the same polling thing like you were explaining, however all that is needed is for the player themself to add a poll to their thread. For example my "ImDeity Mod Idea" thread I have a poll whether it's a good idea or not. This way, the admin doesn't have to create the poll. Maybe the players, instead, should create a poll when suggesting an idea that way staff can not only read detailed opinions stated in the replies, but look at the polls as well.

    We are not a company. We are a community.
     
  10. Venithar

    Venithar

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    I think you missed the part where I mentioned a lot of players don't use the forums, so placing a poll in a forum is counter productive. You will again only get a small base of opinions. However using something ingame, for instance if you ran a polling script over a 24hr period, you would at least get a better understanding of what the community wants.
     
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  11. KILL3RTACO

    KILL3RTACO

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    I think you missed part were I said we are a community, not a company. The way we do things are going to be different. The way we develop is going to be different. The way we act towards the rest of the community is going to be different.

    If most players don't use the forums, well fine, ok, they can't suggest anything if they don't. If they want to suggest an idea the'll need to use something that is archived and can be viewed later. If they can only suggest it in game, then it's most likely not going to be seen. If you look at Deity in-game most of the time he may be AFK, then come back sometime later. And because of that he'll miss most the chat.

    If they are only going to suggest something or state a problem in-game, they shouldn't be suggesting at all. They need to post on the forum. We don't need a council to handle this.
     
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  12. Venithar

    Venithar

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    I'm sorry, I guess you missed the part where I said I was the Sysop for a PLAYER RUN GAME, not a company.

    As a side note, we had a 90% retention rate of players over 7 years...
     
  13. ImDeity

    ImDeity

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    I think this player council idea is overlooking the fact that this basically already exists and they're the ~10 people who are moderators/senior mods -- they're people just like you (except for a couple additional commands like /ban) who also play on the server and experience the same ups and downs that you all experience.

    I talk to this 'player council' at least 30 minutes each week during the weekly staff meetings and talk/write to others throughout the rest of the week and they keep me posted on the most important requests/bugs/problems/features that need to be addressed (I also talk to people like Gwen and Versh for literally hours each week on Teamspeak about server related things). They regularly remind me of anything that I forget to do and help re-prioritize things on my to-do list that need to be addressed sooner than later. They filter through numerous tickets, forum posts and general chatter, compile a comprehensive list and bring them to my attention. Having yet another group of people repeating these things to me in a less organized manner would simply add to the noise and be a waste of my time -- time that could be spent working on existing requests.

    If you have suggestions or ideas, continue to post them to the forum or let the staff know -- I guarantee at least one staff member will read your post (in most cases more than one of the staff will read the post) and I will hear of it through them when deemed necessary (the reason why I am replying to this thread, for example, is because they told me of this thread in today's staff meeting).
     
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  14. KILL3RTACO

    KILL3RTACO

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    You said something about a company in one of your previous post, so sorry for that. But still, when you say 'player run game' I assume you mean a game that is programmed/developed further based on player input? Or am I wrong?

    Nevermind, read what Deity said, not going to reply further. Unless provoked.
     
  15. The_Yogs

    The_Yogs

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    *Rolls eyes* I will be locked in my bedroom learning java so I can potentially be of progressive assistance in the future. Instead of typing long descriptions of ideas, I'd rather a direct approach to my own aspirations...

    my own aspirations are the player's aspirations
     
  16. Venithar

    Venithar

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    First, thank you for replying to this thread Deity. I understand that you have staff and that they are players, however what I am trying to point out, is each staff member has their own priorities and every staff has it's own slant on what they feel is important (to them), just like I am doing now. Perhaps a better way would to have an actual CRM who had the sole job of getting a feel for the overall feeling of what the community wants, instead of having 10+ mods all throwing in their opinions of what the community, that they talk to, wants. I personally, until recently, talked with very few mods; however, I did talk with other players. Of the mods I have talked with, yes they have similar desires, but each one has their own priority, and each has those who would generally agree/disagree with most of what they would say.
     
  17. prwraith

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    I don't think it's all to shocking that some of the older players feel like they're ideas are swept under the rug.

    I also don't think it's odd that the moderators aren't considered peers.

    Open debate brings new ideas to open minds. But we lack the quality of debaters, and sadly open minds. So chock another point up to the status quo.
     
  18. KILL3RTACO

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    Nonetheless I still enjoy a good debate.

    No hard feelings Venithar.
     
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  19. Frenchy1

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    Deity, since apparently the tries for new programmers did not seem to work, what do you need when it comes to new programmers?
    I know that in this community we probably have dozens of people that are well versed into programming or at least somewhat well versed. I am sure that giving us another detailed information on what it is you would like to find in a new programmer could drastically increase the amount of people that would aspire to become just that.

    I know that trust is a big issue when it comes to handling server plugins, but trust is earned over time. Can giving programmers a chance (like you did last time) be repeated?

    Perhaps make is a Main page announcement? Our community is so vast that I am sure out there we have people just as good or even more skilled than even VZ or yourself (no offense to you guys, you seem pretty badass when it comes to programming) but what I intend to say is that our community is so vast, that probability suggests there are one or two hidden talents. Even if some people are just "decent" i'm more than sure that half of our dedicated players are willing to give an hour or two here and there to learn the ways.

    In this thread, we might all appear as selfish in a "We want everything fixed NAO" way, but what we would really want, is that you get some help when it comes to the things that are hard to do. Fixing it by yourself is crazy, I know that you are also a college student, and we have a lot of work. Spending so much time fixing plugins and repeating the same actions after every update has got to be a pain when there is so much studying to do.

    Heck, like Yogs has said, he would be willing to learn from the ground up to be able to help you. A lot us would. If you want us to learn something specific tell us what. A lot of us are quick learners.


    On a second note, if you want to hire someone to help you (or perhaps offer a certain someone a deal), I'm 100% ready to donate a big amount for that. I'm sure plenty of us are. We're a community and you're part of it, just like any of us. If you need help, we've got your back.
     
  20. strydier

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    Y U no listen?

    Y'all sound like Congress. Out of all the responses only Frenchy seems to understand. The rest of you would rather add another step in the chain without fixing the problem.

    It does no good to have councils, run polls, kiss babies and ask opinions all the time if we don't have the programmers and developers in place to act on all these things.
     
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